Quote: Now I am upset (I continue to be and not being very able to hold it it) about our financial arrangement. We didn't talk about $ before we got married, and he just decided that this is the way it's going to be. (Separate accounts, he pays house payment, I pay utilities.) Well, I'm broke all the time and he's out blowing money on performance equipment for his new truck. Then he agreed to help pay for groceries if we stayed home to eat more. Then I've had to ask him more than once for that money. I hate the term I owe you or you owe me. I think it is ridiculous to owe each other money if we are married. I asked how we were going to do finances if we have children. He said we would cross that bridge when we come to it.
Well, am I just being cold? I'm 34 1/2 and I'd kinda like to know now-if this isn't going to work and we can't agree on $, then I can find a diff. h to have children with. I did not say this to him, but let it go. I told him that we don't make $ a team effort, we haven't talked about how we are going to pay for vaca, and we haven't talked about retirement. (my co. reinstated their matching and it's great). So he said, "let me ask, what happens to that money if we don't work out?" I said that like everything else it gets split w/the divorce settlement, that it is part his...
Your financial arrangement sounds oh so familar. My H spends HIS money on fancy hunting trip, expensive hunting equipment and fishing equipment! My H makes twice as much as I do. I pay mortage and bills. H reimburses me, at his leisure for the most part. If I ask he sometimes acts like I'm asking him for the world, one time he called me a back stabber..wtf..I think he was referring to his mother!
And, this is where my resentment built up. Financial security is at the top of my list of importance in a marriage, yet we are up to our eyeballs in debt because of H and his "gotta have it now, gotta have the best" attitude!
At some point H and I will have to sit down and discuss this, also, as I don't want to NOT talk about it anymore. I don't know that anything would change, but a discussion is definitely in order and some kind of agreement should be made...with you, too. Sorry for the hijack.
I like the joint checking account with any major purchases being discussed before "it" is purchased idea, but don't know if it would work with my H or if he would agree.
Not sure if I helped at all, but wanted to let you know that you're not the only one with this type of financial arrangement and we have a child, also.
I agree, the finances are a huge issue. You seem to be on the right track. Approach with the same principals. Do more of what works, less of what doesn't.
Really look at what is and isn't working. Beginners mind.
Trish, I DO want the 2x4's! Thank you!! I do not want you to commiserate with me or have a pity party.
No, I haven't been keeping a sol'n journal. I KNOW what works and what doesn't. I have a hard time sticking to what does work. I get extremely impatient and very scared. What causes me to snap is my fear that it just won't last or that I will have the wool pulled over my eyes. Like, I'll believe that he's a nice guy and not a jerk, but then he'll prove me wrong. Yes, I know that EVERYONE can be a jerk and/or bi!ch at times.
I try to act as if, and be happy go lucky and not let things bother me. But I can only do this for so long. If it's not one thing that upsets me, it's another.
I DO expect a lot from him! We had discussions BEFORE we got married about what was important to me and things about himself that he wanted to change, but he doesn't b/c in his eyes I am not doing what he has asked for. The only thing he has ever asked for: stability in our r./for me to believe in him/trust him.
What do you mean by him needing me to be the leader? Yes, I'm sure he is confused. I'm hot one day, cold the next, etc. I have done this in past r's that's why i think that i am the primary cause of this downfall. H would be relatively easy to get along with-he does not complain about me or criticize me, etc. He is just difficult at times and not very good at communicating his feelings/wants.
OK, part. of the deal is that I get so tired of being the one to have to think of what to do, how to spend our time, etc. I initiate sex more, and snuggling more. I get so tired of hearing, "i don't care or uh uh uh (i don't know)" He does not always act very interested in being sexual and I want him to show me that he is. What I wanted to say is that I wanted to go home for some hot sex, but it is like skating on thin ice w/that subject. he has felt pressured by me and feels used (i'm surmising) b/c i sometimes use sex for affirmation. he also thinks that it should happen more naturally whereas sometimes i like to "flirt" or set the tone for later, or to have a designated romantic evening. He is the woman in this regard in the r. He is more concerned with the r, and i am more concerned with sex.
I have such a hard time just asking for clarification or expressing my feelings w/o getting emotional. I cry at the drop of a hat, and when he sees tears, he immediately gets scared of how I am going to act towards him. I have been very aggressive, controlling, and accusatory in the past. But, I have gotten a LOT better, but to him, it just hasn't been long enough.
Yes, I know I am giving him too much power and that I do not believe that I am ok. grrrr...I should def. be less available to him.
I know that I am not responsible for his responses and told him this the other night (not the first time). I told him that he doesn't HAVE to get angry with me, that it's his choice. I AM tired of trying to prove myself and convince him to stay with me. No, I don't want to be with him if he doesn't know if he wants to be with me. He f'in married me, to me that equals being committed to staying married.
Quote: Just make sure you really are asking for clarifiaction and not trying to prod him to respond in any certain way to reassure you, comfort you, show acceptance, apprecaition.........Examine your motives firstly before asking, because if you ARE trying to ellicit a response of sympathy or empathy or comfort...etc, etc.... He WILL know it immediately and it makes you seem needy and uncertain in his eyes and will undoubtledly affect the way he responds to you...
I do this all the time. I always want some kind of reassurance from him. He doesn't say ily first anymore. he says it back, though. he doesn't compliment me on my appearance anymore, but will for a good meal, etc.
I know that I get more of what I want when I do what works and give him what he wants. It's just that breaking point. I bought a book on ebay called "He's Scared, She's Scared," about commitmentphobes. I am def. scared scared scared. At times consciously, at times not.
this r and my h are worth the effort, i just get so tired of feeling like i am doing it on my own. And-don't hit me, i've already gotten lots of 2X4's for this-I just want his help and want him to contribute!
honestly, right now i don't feel like i like him very much, but i know if he were to go away that I would regret it deeply.
as an after-thought, the money he is spending on his new truck is money that he made in profit by buying a car w/a blown up engine and fixing it. and he talks about fixing things in the house-like the fireplace, and living room stuff. and, when things are better, he is more concerned with these things.
I wish I could detach and not care and just worry about myself and TAKE CARE of myself!!!
i need to pick a 180 or two to focus on. hmmm...not having expectations? backing off from initiating sex? tried that - i just get frustrated... acting as if i am fine regardless of how he is acting towards me. I have been doing somewhat better at this like when he is tired or in a bad mood...
I'm glad you got some time to go through my post to you. I will try and respond as best I can .....some of it may have to wait til I can come up with some more ideas....
I'm glad you took the 2x4! It comes with extra hugs you know
I suggested the solution journal for a few reasons.
I would say you most definitely do know what works and what doesn't, the further purpose would be so you could look back on all your responses and see how far you've come and how positive you can be and it could go along way to helping you feel a litle more certain and a bit less vulnerable, a place to turn when you are looking for answers and some sign of encouragement.
As for the hard time sticking with what works......well I would say if you are having a hard time...then the payoff isn't there for YOU ...You may only be doing it because you think it's what works with HIM.....For the short term this would work but not for very long...unfortunately , you are right this will not work....it will for a while but eventually he will see you are doing it for him and not for yourself..............Does that make sense?
In other words it's NOT really working for you...You need to find what does "work" for you and when you do...it won't be so hard to do....because the rewards will be a little clearer and immediate.
Now if what you meant was he keeps coming from a different direction and you have to keep coming up with NEW things that work?? New responses that work?....yeah, that's a challenge... a challenge to keep your self motivated when you feel like you are being attacked form all sides and you are blindfolded to boot!!! Like there is no end to this...
Well My dear, I guess the bad news is we must DB our whole lives.......it is a way of life...not something we can try and then gradually ween ourselves off of and go back to being how we were before...
To really get something to work for us, we must find and know ourselves and find what "works" , motivates, inspires, challenges or fufills US.
I know you feel impatient , we all do...nothing ever seems to happen in the time frame we impose on ourselves....this is where we must have the patience of Job........
If we could only remember that patience and time are our friends. We need to stop looking at them like they are our competition....they are truely gifts, there for us to use!!
Take time to contemplate Take time to realize how you feel at any given moment( big for you) Take time to formulate what you REALLY want to say Take time to figure out what you are trying to get from him
and be patient with yourself
"What causes me to snap is my fear that it just won't last"
Will snapping and getting abrupt get you what you want? Or does it just give you a momentary release of energy? A lashing out that is really a plea for someone to say..."It's okay! You're going to be okay!"
If that is what you need ...You must be the one to give it to yourself...as much as you want him to be the calming influence, the reaasurance...He will not.
As long as you are that needy...he will not fufill your needs....For him, this is about getting HIS needs MET...not yours.
Now this is unfair, to be sure...but that is how it is...
He was not put here on this earth to be your savior...he is going to have a hard enough time saving himself!
We are inside all just little children looking for love and affirmation....we keep thinking someone out there will love us and that will make us whole...but it doesn't....it only appears that way at first( when you first meet and are talking at every moment and can;t take your eyes off of each other oyou are convinced that this person really "gets" you!)...but really what goes on is each person is out there trying in whatever way...subtle or hidden to get their own needs met.....
So lets' look at that for a moment...
Really look at what you said.....
What if???
What if he pulls the wool over your eyes? Made you believe he was a nice guy and then turns out he's a jerk...then what? What would you feel???
What's the worst that can happen???
Of course you can only "act as if" for so long.... because it doesn't feel natural. It's an act after all!! You want your needs met and after awhile the little voice inside you that says " now wait a minute, I have been so good here, giving and giving, WHEN am I going to get back!!???"
So you get over one thing and realize hey, here's another thing that's got me upset and it just snowballs!
The trick to this is to remember: You have no right to expectations....you have no right to expect him to make you happy, calm your anxiousness, heal your wounds, soothe your soul.
He is free to leave at any minute of any day........
and so are you.
There is nothing...absolutely nothing...that can force him to stay.
If he chooses to respond to your needs, great....but he doesn't have to.
Neither do you to his needs....your job is to meet those needs for yourself......through whatever means you must...frinds, relatives, work, activitiies, church....whatever......
When you do that for yourself...You will be in control of your feelings and not at the whim of whether or not he wants to take care of you.
Which means you will be feeling a whole lot less like you don't matter and need him and much more like it's nice to have him around but you'd survive without him.....CONFIDENCE exuding CONFIDENCE and how sexy is THAT!!!!!
He may have only vocally asked for a "few" things...but the reality is all people have HUGE unspoken expectations of each other that they cannot possibly hope to get filled by others.....so don't you go minimizing what he supposedly asks of you!!
Have you told him EVERTHING YOU NEED???? I think not...so he hasn;t touched the surface...he's just better at hiding his needs which if you think about it is not a good thing at all!!!!
He asks alot! For one He wants you to believe that YOU are the needier partner...That he is asking very little of you!...Well, how nice of him...Where's the Halo!!
He is putting on you, the cloak of responsibility...
By doing this he is in essence saying "It's YOUR problem " you deal with it!! Because it can't be me!! I don't make hardly any demands!!
I want to tell you about being a leader....but I think that will take another post!!
Suffice it to say that you need to step up and speak up a little more.. When he is confused he is dying for you to be the calm voice of reason, take the lead tell him what you want....Not yelling, shouting, demanding, berating, taunting, mocking, argueing.But you, telling him what you want....so he doesn't have to guess. This is not a test...he is not being tested to see if he measures up.....You need to make some more decisions for yourself..... By taking or maybe "sharing" might be a better word, some of the responsibility for "YOU", It would seem that he is tired of carrying the burden of being responsible for your happiness.....He is having trouble with himself and cannot carry you right now........
Lead the way...show him how you can be independent of him and not rely on his attention nearly so much....He will be gratefull and it will draw him nearer...He won't have to be so afraid of being burnt up by coming too close to the flame!
I have alot more to say to you about his" he doesn't critisize or complain...he's just difficult at times and not very good at communicating."......Sounds like we are married to the same guy!! But you have got to stop letting him off the hook!!!!
For the moment...You are doing really well.. Start with some small goals.. how about something like:
Be less available two days this week. Greet him and say good night, very cheerfully for two days...with NO physical contact or hint that you want to five or take any. Tell him one time this week in answer to your feeling like you always have to figure out what to do:..."I just don't have a clue what to do...YOU DECIDE"(ever so sweetly) and no matter how absolutely stupid you do whatever he suggests!!
One last thing...Knowing that you are not responsible for his responses in your head and FEELING it in your heart are two VERY different things...I believe you when you said that intellectually you know this but you are acting towards him like you are responsible ........By accepting his foisting it upon you ,you go along looking inside you for the answers when the issue is about him.......
Telling him is good....(telling him he is responsible for his anger) But you don't believe it.........
Inside your head you are saying well if only I hadn't done this or said that he wouldn't have gotten mad.......
Some body who knows it doesn't have to say it.......
Some body who knows it doesn't have to say it.........
I promise I'll come back tommorow, but for now..I need to attend to some stuff here at home....
Quote: As for the hard time sticking with what works......well I would say if you are having a hard time...then the payoff isn't there for YOU ...You may only be doing it because you think it's what works with HIM.....For the short term this would work but not for very long...unfortunately , you are right this will not work....it will for a while but eventually he will see you are doing it for him and not for yourself..............Does that make sense?
In other words it's NOT really working for you...You need to find what does "work" for you and when you do...it won't be so hard to do....because the rewards will be a little clearer and immediate.
Trish, This is good. Exactly right. I am still focused on what I can do to please him and to get what I want out of him. I need to make myself happy for me. What does that entail? I like the plan to not be available a couple days this week. (Or every week). I have had such a hard time w/this b/c I am afraid to be apart, but I know it helps. Tonight I'm going to clean "my room" so I can have my sactuary to read, journal, study bible, or just go when I want to not start a fight w/h.
Believe me, I HAVE told him what I want and need, he just refuses to do it right now, or as he puts it, needs to do it on his own time. I have to deal with that.
If I said I had no clue about what to do-we would do NOTHING. Well, maybe not. He did say the other night as we were arguing/talking that he wouldn't do something that continually pissed me off and I laffed. I said, you won't help make plans, suggest romantic evenings, etc... He was trying for a couple weeks after he came home from cinci. then stopped. ???
Last night he went to vball with me. He was a little reluctant b/c it is at church. I'm a believer & he doesn't know what he is. He was afraid people would try to shove it down his throat. I assured him that they wouldn't. He said he had an "ok" time. I really don't care if he goes or not, as it is something that i do w/o him-ya know, like "my thing." We came home, I made dinner, we watched some tv, i got up to take a shower and didn't go back to the liv. room, but went to bed to read. I went out to X him, went back, and fell asleep. when he came to bed he woke me up and I had to go potty. He made fun of me for something and i totally yelled at him. really caught me off guard. then he read, and I lay there awake. he did touch me a couple times, like put his feet on my leg or something. i apologized for snapping at him and he touched my leg w/his fingers as if to say it's ok. (i thought, why doesn't he apologize for antagonizing me when i woke up from my slumber???) then he turned the light off, knew i was still awake, curled up w/his back to me. I don't know if he expected me to spoon him. normally i would have, but he didn't say anything, and i didn't.
Tonight I am assuming that he is going out with his guy friend. We have plans for Saturday to go to a bday party and play cards and go bowling. Still haven't figured out what I'm going to say when I go to the new counselor's office. I won't be home til 830ish, so I must account for my whereabouts. But now, I don't know if I will keep the appt. b/c I was planning to use my bonus $, but they said it was going to be less than I thought yesterday. ??? Now I don't know how much it's going to be & won't get it until 2-12.
I have some ideas of stuff I would like to do. Gotta just do it!!!
You say not to approach him wanting reassurance, but that's all i want. must come from me... i just don't believe that I am ok and that things are going to be ok...
Karen it looks like you are already making some changes in your attitude!
If it's not working for you....then don't do it.....
MUCH MORE important to do what does work.
If you do things only to please him? The natural backlash of this is you will end up feeling resentment that he is getting what he wants and YOU are working so hard to give it to him!
I don't think you want that.
Start working on what YOU need.....
He will be grateful in his heart that he doesn't have to take care of your needs AND HIS!!
Cause let's face it...he ain't up to the task!!
He needs to focus on him and you need to focus on you ...so that you both can be happy together!!
He's scared/she's scared...is because you both have needs, but you are both looking to the other person to get them met!
Yeah that's right...he's looking to you much more than you realize!! ..AND If he didn't think you could meet them( his needs)..........he'd be outta there!!
He knows you are the one to take care of his needs. He should be taking care of them himself...but he has you!
He is just a bit more quiet about it....
This is actually insidious because it is less honest and harder to figure out what he wants.
It may very well be....HE DOESN'T know what he wants.......
I'm afraid you will have to deal with the uncertainty for awhile. But don't let it get in your way.
Afterall it's HIS uncertainty, RIGHT?
Your quote:
"I am afraid to be apart"
WHY?
What will happen?
What do you think you are controlling if you are not apart?
He can sense you are afraid..........How do you think HE feels about this???
Smothered? Trapped? Being evaluated????
What??
Your quote:
"believe me I have told him what I need"
Don't tell him what you need.
It is not his job.
He is under no committment to fufill or even listen to your needs.
Even if he as you put it"F n married me so there is some committment to make the marriage work"
NO THERE IS NOT........anyone is free to leave at any time t
LOVE IS A CHOICE.
We choose to love or we don't.
We can change our minds and decide we don't or we do.....
Your quote:
" I said, you won't help make plans, suggest romantic evenings....."
Again, you are expecting something from him, disappointed you aren't getting it and telling him what to do.....stop!
Look at what he DOES do( not his words look at the actions)...catch him doing good and parise him when he does do something. Don't say a word about what he fails to do....you might want to "act" as if you didn't even notice what he failed to do.
"Act" as if you are fine with whatever he does or DOES NOT do....no expectations on your part.
Take the pressure off of him....and I mean BIG TIME!...........
Refuse to take all the responsibility....but do not expect him to pick up the slack.
This may have to go on for quite a while but eventually he will want to do something! or offer to do something...and if he doesn't ..Then in the mean time you are having fun and going out and having a life, not sitting around waiting to have a life...He will want to join you eventually he will see you having such a good time he will want to partcipate on some level.....He may just be glad/relieved you are happy!!As in "wow, I don't have to wonder or worry about her anymore. She knows how to have a good time!"
He can relax and enjoy, without the burden of someone elses feelings being his responsibility and when that happens he is most likely going to be willing to meet your needs.
I read the interaction last night in bed as......
you went to bed first.....
you made a point to come back out and kissed him.....
he knew you kissed him...so when he came to bed he approached.....
You over-reacted about something totally unrelated...
Got mad at him for waking you.....
You yelled at him...
He got mixed signals from you and didn't know what to do!
So he tries: touches your leg....lingers for a bit...
You don't respond...so he rolls over and sends you the message: okay I got it You're awake but not interested.....
Turns on his back( he feels rejected)
Goes to sleep...
( He didn't expect anything from you ...he was reaching out and trying)
Be willing to look for the small steps....no grand gestures ...small stuff.....
Apologize for antagonizing you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was trying to do what you are always asking him to do!!!!!
INITIATE.
And what did it get him??
The you go right into ASSuming!!!
Well he'll be going out with the boys tonight...so there you can be mad at him again...
He woke you AND he is abandoning you tonight!!!!
Bad, bad husband!!
It almost sounds like you are counting on him going out with the boys tonight because it gives you a break!!!
Tonight gives you a chance to work on you...if he goes out.....be glad!!!!!!!!
Let's go back to what you mentioned in your previous post:
Wanting clarification but becoming emotional about asking for it.
What are you feeling when you ask for clarification?
Do you want answers?
Reassurance?
Directions?
or is some thing unclear to you and you want to understand it better?
I might hazard to say if you are getting emotional..you want acceptance.....Why? why are you asking for his acceptance??
What other ways can you get acceptance?...is there somehting you can do that might give you a feeling of being accepted or a sense of acomplishment?...a group to join....a visit with frinds or loved ones....someplaces that make you feellike you like who you are when you are there?
You are absolutely entitled to feel your feelings.....so go ahead and feel them.....
But wanting or seeking clarification is not about your feelings....
It's about thoughts....
understanding a thought...
Be willing to hear the answer...BEFORE you react with the emotion.
It may have nothing to do with a feeling....
If you are tired of trying to prove yourself?
Then don't ...
The only one you have to prove yourself too is you..
Maybe you are the one who needs to give the approval to you.
Are you happy with you?
Your quote:
" he doesn't criticize or complain...he's just difficult and doesn't communicate well."
When someone criticizes or complians it fairly direct.....it's right there...there's the compliant from him to you...
He has to vocalize it in a way that let's you know he is unhappy.
By being "difficult".......
He puts it on you to figure out what's going on!!
It's immature of him....
He doesn't come right out and say "hey...I'd like to change this...or I'm unhapy about this"....he makes you figure it out!
What are you houdidni??? Can you read his mind........STOP making it SOOOOOO easy for him!! If he gets "difficult" ask him what's up...make him tell you don't let him buffalo you into figurng out what it's gonna take to make him happy!
You say he doesn't communicate all that well????
Well he communicates his dislikes so well that you know he's unhappy and you know he wants you to figure it out!!
AND THEN YOU TRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are not his mother...you are not his phsychiatrist....you are his partner.
You are entitled to have him tell you what he is thinking and/or feeling coming from HIM not from some ASSumption in your head...Because I WILL GUARANTEE YOU WILL GUESS WRONG!
Even if you guessed right would he tell you? Would he say, "That's right hon, you got it...you figured it out! You are so smart and you know me so well".....blah, blah, blah
I don't think so.
This is a keep her guessing game ...a keep her involved with MY needs game!
(((((((((((See if she can prove herself game............... ))))))))))
You are right about one thing( many )
You are wrong about this...You are not doing it alone!
God is there......he is with you every step of the way.
Let him help you.
When you let go and let God....all things work together...
You cannot control anything but YOU....
As much as you might like to, it is not all up to you to "FIX " this........it's going to take all three of you.
The first person you say "I love you" to, in the morning...
Should be you!
Last night H called me at the same time I was dialing his #! We chit chatted and I told him I was going to get my hair cut. I asked cheerfully, "are you takin' off soon?" He said no, that he wasn't going out b/c he didn't feel like it. So I asked if he wanted for me to cook or to go somewhere. He said he didn't care. So I said I was planning to go to the groc store anyway, so I'll go pick up dinner. Do you still want steak? (I asked for dinner ideas earlier in the week and he gave me one!)
Made dinner; usually when I cook, he stands in the kit. to talk and/or help some. Pleasant convo. Nothing was said that I might have twisted around to be neg. We watched some tv, I took a shower and put some clothes away. He has been doing most -ok, almost ALL of the clothes washing and he had folded a ton of mine. I went back to watch more tv, we went to bed, read for a few min, he turns off the light and initiated snuggling!!
I know I planned to clean my room, but tbo, i am overwhelmed with how messy it is!!
What works is being pleasant, having some stuff to talk about, and asking him q's, being playful ie pillow fighting, etc.
Tonight I am meeting with SBT. Wish me luck. Both with her and if I have a convo. w/h about it. He has seen me switch so many times, that I had lost credibility. But, I was with the last one for over 15 months, and have been dreading seeing her for the last half a year or so. It's not b/c she is direct and I don't like to hear what she has to say. That's fine, but I just can't deal with all of the negative images that she gives me to think about, and she is quite pompous.
I think she has been wasting my time. One time (not at band camp) she spent 10 minutes grilling me in the fall about whether or not I have SAD. I said, no...no...no...no...I like to ski, i like snow...no... And last time she just focused on my struggle(s) and negative feelings w/o talking SOLUTIONS!! So, I have left feeling worse on most occasions. (You know-she's just a normal psychologist, not an SBT.)
sorry, i am rambling. Pam, my head is really fuzzy today too. Can hardly pay attn. to what I am doing and I need to!
Hi, The job interview is questionable. I think I did ok for the most part, but they asked about my last review, what it said, what my last mgr. would say about me. I was very honest and tried not to be negative and bash the mgr. I should know something about it next week.
Last night was good. Went to the SBT-there was a total miscommunication about how much I would have to pay and they threw away my files from December since I never made an actual appt. I need to talk to them again and get the real answer about the money. Other than that, how do I find an SBT other than them? (they are not on my insurance.)
Got home, h didn't even ask me where I was. Had a good night, I initiated which he responded to very nicely. Really enjoyable, then he init'd snuggling as we fell asleep. He asked what we are doing tonight and I threw out a few ideas as he said he didn't know. I am going to try to not get flustered about this, as I know he can and will help when "he feels better about us."
I have more responses to Trish's posts, and I have been thinking...but I don't have a lot of time right now.
Like there is no end to this...
..AND If he didn't think you could meet them( his needs)..........he'd be outta there!!
