Tell me again "why" she believes a two-yr-old child needs a psych evaluation?
IMHO, she doesn't want you there b/c she may try to fill the doctor's head with biased information about the child's father. Building a case for full custody? IDK, but in cases that involved your child, do not allow her to bully you into thinking such nonsense of you not giving her space, etc. Anytime it involves an appointment with any type of doctor....you have a right to be there. IMO, the first question that doctor will have is where is his father? You need to just show up at the doctor's office at the time for child's appointment. Don't discuss it anymore with your W, just be there on time.
This should not be about her. Have you noticed how she turns it all around and makes it about her? The father being there for the app't shows good parenting.
Learn to keep quiet instead of running your mouth, and focus on what's best for your son....not necessarily what she wants.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The problem is, I don't even know which child pychiatrist she's taking our son to, and she ain't gonna give up that info. If it does involve child custody, couldn't I ultimately use my journal entries in here as proof that she refused my offer to go with them? After all, it's time/date stamped. I'm even thinking of using a voice recorder when I ask her one more time later today.
Well, I took a deep breath and braved the obvious repercussion. I asked my wife to inform me what the findings of the visit are, since I can't be there. She said would you quit being controlling. I asked a couple of things: was she going to be biased or unbiased in providing information to the doctor; what if the doctor asks about me? My wife replied that the doctor already knows that I won't be coming. And she kept telling me to stop being controlling, because she must've felt how I was cornering her and questioning her was controlling. She said she will let me know anything pertinent. "Why can't you trust me?", she added. "I just want to run away and never ever see you again whenever you do things like this!" So I said that I just wanted to be clear. ...And I had the conversation recorded just to be on the safe side. I hate being sneaky like this, but I feel like I need to protect myself, at least from a legal standpoint.
Still, I can't help but wonder if my wife is really having a hard time battling her own decisions of our separation so far vs going ahead with it. What I mean is, could she be seriously reconsidering, not reconciling, but just maybe, opening herself up because she has seen changes in me, but is still afraid to face that? Perhaps now even though she's still protecting herself with her wall, she might be watching my every move more intently than before? I don't know, but based on the words she's been using during our conversations above, the kind of distress she's in and her tone tell me that I may have been wrong about how far gone she has been in her decision to divorce.
Don't worry, I'm still hard at DRing even with all my backsliding and backlashes.
I am a big advocate of men rediscovering their masculinity. Many men start out strong and independent in the eyes of their wife, then after so many years, respect is lost as they learn that the man they married is not the infallible white knight they first thought.
This is why when I see a man post a situation with all the symptoms of lost respect, I advocate focusing on oneself, becoming more decisive, setting boundaries, and so on. Basically working on being more masculine and assertive.
The difficuly lies in getting the man to look at themself and see that they have become beaten down (by life, their R, their situation etc). To pick themself up, forgive themself for past mistakes, and discover the man they can become.
By this I do not mean becoming a jerk. What it means is to learn to truly love and respect yourself. As cliched as it sounds, you cannot expect someone to love and respect you if you do not love and respect yourself. When you TRULY work on you and stop focusing on her and how to fix your connection to each other, THEN there is the possibility she will realize what she is losing.
How?
* Physical: Lift weights, run, join a martial art. This releases stress, and helps you cope. It also shows you respect yourself enough to take care of yourself, and makes you perceivably more attractive, whether your body changes or not.
* Attitude: Positive, confident, decisive, cool calm manner of dealing with everyday things.
* Boundaries: Assertive, NOT aggressive. Not letting anyone push you around. Enforcing in a measured way, almost professional and never angry. Straight to the point and honest.
* Unapologetic/consistent in action: What I mean by this is that you are not continually saying sorry for something then repeating the behavior. Better to change the behavior than apologize and keep doing it.
* Self-assuredness: Truly believing it is her loss. Living life as such. Instead of chasing her, letting go so that she must chase. Realizing that although completely counter-intuitive, pursuit is not the answer. Deciding once and for all to show yourself the ultimate respect of never chasing after someone that does not reciprocate those feelings.
* Inner-strength: Looking deep down and finding the part of you that says (and believes) "I can handle anything that comes my way" and "I am going to do what is right" and "my kids deserve the best I can do".
The challenge is not in mastering the relationship, it is in mastering onesself.
SF
Truly inspirational ! i need to drill these into my head on a daily basis
BITS M 38 W 36 D 7 Married 15 yrs W left for 6 months in 2009 W Filed for D 01/03/11 piecing now...
The problem is, I don't even know which child pychiatrist she's taking our son to, and she ain't gonna give up that info.
This is sounding like serious stuff to me. I think you better get some legal advice....and fast. She's withholding information about your own child and refuses to tell you anything.
I wouldn't take what she said about running away very lightly. Sounds like she could be suffering from a mental problem.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The problem is, I don't even know which child pychiatrist she's taking our son to, and she ain't gonna give up that info.
This is sounding like serious stuff to me. I think you better get some legal advice....and fast. She's withholding information about your own child and refuses to tell you anything.
I wouldn't take what she said about running away very lightly. Sounds like she could be suffering from a mental problem.
I made my first appointment with an attorney, so we'll see how that goes. Like I mentioned before, I really want to give my wife the benefit of the doubt, based on the vibe I'm getting from her. I know her enough to know that she may actually just be acting childish while trying to protect herself (not legally, but emotionally and socially), and not being all conniving.
And you're kinda right Sandi. She does have some deep mental wounds, both from her childhood and also from being with me. It's a long story, but will tell it for those interested. Which is why I'm taking this into account with how she's been behaving all these months. There's self-esteem, emotional and trust issues to contend with, unfortunately. Some aspects are really serious and some less, but my poor wife has been seriously traumatized her entire life.
Come on man, you are being too easy on your W. You keep excusing, justifying, defending her actions, when what she is doing is unacceptable.
The fact that she has issues as a result of her past experiences does not mean YOU deserve to be treated badly and must tolerate it from her.
Again, I am not saying be a jerk to her, but have enough self respect to STOP justifying her bad behavior to yourself and to us here on the forums.
You need to see the "self-talk" you are doing. You need to see the message you are sending to yourself...
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My wife calls and asks me to let our childcare provider know that our son won't be coming in until before lunch tomorrow. She said she's going to take him to a child psychologist to evaluate how he's doing. I said okay, no problem. Then I asked my wife if I should be there too, since he's being psych-evaluated for what's going on with our family. My wife said no, not yet. We'll have to wait and see.
Why do you need to ask her if you should be there too? Why do you defer to her to decide what is best for your kid? She said no, and you are content to wait and see.
See how passive and reactive this is instead of pro-active?
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My wife comes home and I said I thought about it some more and I need to be there with y'all during the psych visit. She vehemently said no. And no. And no. And no...
RED FLAG. Why the hell is she so adamant about you not attending?
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She basically said that here's another example of me being controlling, that I need to butt my business into everything.
She goes back to the routine that has worked in the past in passifying and controlling you. Much like a child learns how to manipulate a weak parent, she has figured out the best way to reign you in.
Lets see if it works...
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In her defense, I did do that a lot during our marriage, and so I see how she thinks my motive to be at the psych visit might be.
No no no...not in her defense. Stop justifying her behavior.
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She asked why can't I give her the space and respect for once? I said if it's important for our son to suddenly need to such a visit, I need to be there too. What if this was a real sickness and suddenly he had to go to the doctors? Would she deny me from going too? She then told me she's paying for it, so that's that.
More of the same, she is pulling out all the aces to prevent you from being there.
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She kept asking why I can't let her decide to do things for herself without me questioning it (which is true, based on our history).
She keeps repeating it because she knows you back down when she calls you controlling.
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Then she started on a conversation that took me completely by surprise. She got visibly upset and said that she just doesn't see me changing and just keeps seeing the same proof that her decision to leave is the right one.
Changing the subject and attacking you to hurt you again so she can be in complete control of the situation.
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Then the convo turned into something about dinner, and I have to admit to y'all - I totally let the ball drop on this one and made her even madder. She even gave me numerous cues that all she wanted from me was an acknowledgment or an apology, but I kept talking and acting like a defensive jerk. I really blew it, and she finally said she's done with this conversation, that she's madder than before and I blew my chance.
Dinner again? Man, she sure knows which buttons to press. This is why a firm boundary is soooo important. She punched holes in this boundary here. Yes, you blew it because you got upset. You didnt just reinforce your boundary in a calm manner and not let her break the boundary. Dont fret, just keep resolving to do better next time. Cut yourself some slack, we all screw up at times.
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I hate that I can't seem to walk the walk when push comes to shove. I'm starting to doubt the changes I supposedly made over these months.
Do not doubt, you are brand new to this material, and it will take some time to master. Your job is just to be willing and open to learning it. Just think of it like being one of those bull riding machines. You are going to get thrown to the floor a lot in the beginning. THe measure of your mettle is how quickly you can pick yourself back up and get back on it. Next time maybe you can go a little bit longer. Some days the bull bucks harder than others too.
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I hope me letting her take our son doesn't bite me in the butt
Me too. Why does a 2 year old need to see a child psychologist without one parent there? Why is she so adamant about you not being there, or knowing the name of the doctor?
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She does have some deep mental wounds, both from her childhood and also from being with me. It's a long story, but will tell it for those interested. Which is why I'm taking this into account with how she's been behaving all these months. There's self-esteem, emotional and trust issues to contend with, unfortunately. Some aspects are really serious and some less, but my poor wife has been seriously traumatized her entire life.
Be that as it may, it is no excuse for treating you the way she does. Again, you need to stop justifying and excusing her behavior.
Ultimately, you MUST decide what you will and will not accept, and you must enforce them completely. You keep letting her tear you down. Don't be a jerk about it, but do be firm.
Oh and BTW, when she observes changes in you, she will not want to believe it, and she will intentionally try to sabotage you. She is testing you to see if the changes are real, and how strongly you can maintain them.
Your changes / boundaries are like a wall. She will try to tear it down constantly. Strong wall Alamo, strong wall. Don't give up.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Mike, your words are the same ones I have, but they're stuck at the tip of my tongue. When it matters, like the situation above, it is usually the words that fail me. You are also right on about me justifying my wife's actions. It comes from guilt that I allow to creep in.
In the situation above, I tried to stand my ground as long as I could, without me loosing my cool. In a sense, I am glad that she was mad due to my persistence, and not by my anger (usually how I respond to boundary-crossing). I didn't raise my voice (I don't think) and occasionally stopped between sentences to recollect myself by saying "Okay...(insert my wife's name here)". I don't know how much of standing my ground I would've needed to get further information about who or where the doctor is. Considering how things were rapidly deteriorating, I decided to stop. My son was there too and keeping it up like that was no bueno.
My mind is mostly at ease now. Keep on truckin', aye? Today's visit to the doctor is another thing I've added to my prayer list. No turning back, only forward.
I am a big advocate of men rediscovering their masculinity. Many men start out strong and independent in the eyes of their wife, then after so many years, respect is lost as they learn that the man they married is not the infallible white knight they first thought.
This is why when I see a man post a situation with all the symptoms of lost respect, I advocate focusing on oneself, becoming more decisive, setting boundaries, and so on. Basically working on being more masculine and assertive.
The difficuly lies in getting the man to look at themself and see that they have become beaten down (by life, their R, their situation etc). To pick themself up, forgive themself for past mistakes, and discover the man they can become.
By this I do not mean becoming a jerk. What it means is to learn to truly love and respect yourself. As cliched as it sounds, you cannot expect someone to love and respect you if you do not love and respect yourself. When you TRULY work on you and stop focusing on her and how to fix your connection to each other, THEN there is the possibility she will realize what she is losing. SF
This is exactly the re-naissance I have experienced, Spellfire. I feel amazing now. I think is is important for most men that I see on here. They start to think that being nice is what their Ws want. It isn't.
B.I.T.S
Formerly known as onStepAtATime Me:31 W:31 T:13 yrs M:8 yrs D: 20 months ILYBNILWY: 9/22/10 "I want a separation" 1/05/11
