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Denver,

I wept as I read this...First, I'm so sorry that you had to hear/face this truth. I know it was so painful. I've been there friend. But, here is the thing:

You sat w/love in your heart even after your W told you this and listened to her and understood her pain.

You choose to love her, your ss and want your marriage.

You confessed your part in the destruction of your "old" marriage.



Denver, I know how bad this hurts you. I have felt the same things that you are right now. But, now you know finally the real and whole truth. You both destroyed that Marriage. PA just do not happen. Its a choice. Just like the choices you were making back then. It's the past now..let it stay there. But, your past does not have to be your future~ You can have a 'NEW" marriage built on solid ground. Ya'll CAN come back from this Denver...

You can be a better man, you can change and leave your old self behind. So, can your Wife....if you let her. She said to you, that she wanted to work on the M. But, even now she said to you only if your changes are real?? She is hurting too Denver. I do not believe for a moment that she does not feel guilt about her actions. She is just pushing those feelings down right now so she doesnt have to feel.

Denver, you are the only one that can decide if you want to keep going on this path. Forgiveness is a powerful thing...resentfulness and anger will destoy you and your marriage. Agreed? It will prevent you from creating and growing anything new too.

Denver, ask GOD to help you to forgive her and your self. Ask him to change your heart. Just start right there friend....

I'm proud of you Denver! It took a lot for you to confess to us all the real truth, but to yourself is HUGE!!!! Though you don't see it right now. You are becoming a better Man and Husband! Through this pain you are making strides to change.

Denver, I'm praying for GOD to come in your heart today. To give you peace and forgivemess. To keep your mind/heart protected from those who would not act in his will. I'm praying for your W. For GOD to soften her heart and for her to ask him for forgiveness.

There is a book called "I Do Again" its written by the Scruggs. Its about a couple who made it back...I have met them in C a few times. I think it will help...keep reading DBing...if ya got a bible grab it now!

We all love ya Denver......we are all here for you....

You can do this Denver....imagine the possibilites!!!

denver
there is no going back to what was
but there may be moving forward to a more beautiful, satisfying relationshipe
give yourself a few days to process, and feel everything
let your emotions run the gamit
then you will see with clarity, the good fortune of having another chance
how absolutely wonderful to be able to put everything you learned to use
you can do this denver
but for right now
let yourself feel what you feel
i know that you are hurting now and i am sorry
but i am happy that you get a second chance

Denver,

Hugs to you, friend. You did a great job in DB'ing. You stayed calm, you validated her and you didn't react to what she told you. I know you're beating yourself up right now (you shouldn't - you've already been doing that for months!)... but remember to pat yourself on the back too. Not many men could have had the conversation you had last night and rised above jealousy and anger to show love. I think you did an amazing job.

As for the PA and forgiveness.... you know my sitch and know I'm struggling in the same place right now. The "I was done" line must be the mantra for those WAS who have PA's or EA's. I'm actually jealous that your W is honest and you have the truth! Your intuition was right on too. I know it's hard hearing the truth (been there, done that with the XH)... but at the same time, hearing the truth doesn't mean that it happened. It already happened whether you heard the truth or not. Now you can face it. You do have an opportunity here for peace, closure and moving forward with both of you forgiving your past mistakes, both of you changed, both of you still in love with each other and wanting to move forward. One word of advice from someone who has been there, don't ask for details. The basics are enough, trust me. Once you have an image in your mind, you can't get rid of it so leave it alone. It happened, you know it happened, that's really all you need to know. Anything more will make forgiveness harder.

You do have a second chance here... what do you want to do with it?

Denver - good stuff and I have copied your stuff to a folder I am keeping on my goal oriented "solutions". I will share a couple of things here as I enter the 5th month of my separation from my WAW after 33 years of marriage.

I am having many of those "moments of clarity" in my "singularity" and perhaps that is the only way I could have come to the realizations that are presently unfolding in my life. I am reminded of this quote.

"What I've learned in good times I can fit on the head of a pin" C.S. Lewis

If we are lucky we will all have an opportunity to put into practice that which has been carved into our souls with the hot knife of reality. After spending the past 150 nights alone in our bed, one begins to comprehend the magnitude of one's errors and you walk around with a mirror, looking at yourself and coming to a painful realization as to your part in the broken-hill of one's marriage.

Let me share something that a young man said at our men's prayer group at our church. After the bomb went off in our marriage, I ran as FAST as I could to our church and fell at the foot of the cross, looking only to Christ to direct my paths from this day forward. One of the men who was giving his testimony as to how he came to his current beliefs and how he now lives his life. He was saying that he had done a lot of things in his life that he was not proud of and has made a TON of mistakes. He said that only by the grace of God that he did not get caught doing the things he was doing because had he been caught, he would have ended up in a jail cell - so he was thank God for his grace and mercy to keep him out of a jail cell.

After his testimony we were sitting around the dinner table in a small group discussion. This young man, probably 30, said this about what the speaker had shared. He told us that he had just gotten out of prison, and here he was at a men's bible study at church. Now that is some transition. He went on to say this to us. "The speaker said that only by the grace of God did he not end up in a jail cell. For me (the young man), only by the grace of God DID I end up in a jail cell. The jail cell, where I sat alone, afraid, not knowing what to do next, realizing the broken hill of my life, the mistakes I have made all by myself, did I fully comprehend how much I was responsible and how much I needed to change, and to have Christ in my life".

For him, the jail cell was his "moment of clarity". He was out, given a "second chance" to make amends and make a life full of blessings and abundance, and changing his ways.

For those of us separated, we are in that "jail cell". We have a choice to make therefore choose to continue on the path that got us here OR we can change. Simple - right ?

Firstlove

Denver....

First step is already done....

You being honest with yourself...

All of us here can only go by your words, and you can be as honest as you want to be..

The ONE person that matters is that you were honest with yourself...

Grit is correct...

Now is the time to ask why....

Why do you want to save something that you so clearly gave up on long ago ?

The best part is that you can use any reason you want, the fact is.....

You are here, for whatever reason...

And you appear to want to change.

Now is the time to put the marriage on the back burner and work on yourself, to be the better option....

To do this, you must focus on you.

You have taken great strides in your time here...

Have you reached your finish line ?


To be honest, you sound like a man that had been mired in a severe life-transition himself, not knowing what or who he wanted.

To process this, I don't believe it can be done in a lump sum kinda way...

You need to deal with all of these issues one at a time, to fully understand them....


Tell us where you want to start...

To quote one of my favorite movie lines....



I'm your Huckleberry....

Say when ....

Denver:

I'm a little slow and confused on this Friday due to major lack of sleep so I totally apologize. So, does your W want to reconcile or does she want a D?

I want to tell you in confession post, I saw alot of myself and my H in there too. You write so eloquently in getting your point across. I feel honored that you felt comfortable enough with us to share such a personal story. It's not easy to face your inner demons and some never do, but when you do as crappy as it may make you feel, it's a huge heaviness that you no longer have to have in your life. I truly feel that you can never move forward unless you address this stuff. You can't skirt over the deep rooted stuff all you will end up doing is coasting. I hope you realize how huge that was for you to finally shed that last layer of dead skin. Don't beat yourself up about it.

As far as your W and the PA, Michele makes it quite clear in her book in the MLC section, that it's an experimental phase and that can include a relationship with another person. I don't feel alot of Michele's theories just hold true for the chapters she included them in, but they are global for all crisis in a marriage. Hence, I think this theory can apply to Infedilty too. I think they just need to see what's out there sometimes. They say they are happier without us. I pose the question. Is it true? Or, is it that they think they are happier.

You should be proud of yourself Denver. I know that it's a hard time for you. We are all here for you. BITS/SITS are a force to reckoned with. You will don't have to go thru this journey alone.

Wishing you a good Friday and (((HUGS)))

I will attempt not sound like a hypocrite while I talk to you, because this is a conversation I could be having with myself one day.

The first part of your post must have been hard to write, I commend you for having the courage to write it. I have so many thoughts going through my head right now my post will come across as somewhat of a ramble mess.

Everyone suffers from infidelity (now I call it that because while you are still M there is no other name for it) you feel the betrayal the sickness and a range of other emotions. I think however for guys like us the pain takes a special meaning. I don't mean that we suffer more or less than the next person but because we are men of huge egos, this news comes as a sword that pierces the soul. It is the all consuming thought. I know, because I have been there.

After two years of M to my first W I learn that my "son" was not my "son" through his grandmother. She wanted to know why she couldn't spend more time with her grandson and came to my house to ask me that while W was at work. That is how I found out. She saw the shock in my face and knew right away I was clueless. She told me the whole story. My world had collapsed, not because he was not my son in my mind he was mine and still is, because she had betrayed me and lived with the betrayal for so long. That was the biggest blow I could have received. Why do I tell you this story?

Because after the news we stayed together for another 3yrs. I chose to move forward and try and forgive. I had no idea if I could, I felt disgust, but I tried. Something funny happened in my efforts.........I started to really forgive her. Eventually this was a non factor in my life. The M finally ended when she strayed again at that point I chose NOT to forgive her. This is a process and it takes a long time to get there.

The next few days you might have the feeling of joy and the feeling of pain all wrapped into one. It is normal. I have mentioned many times in my thread and in others that I have my deal breakers, this is it, this is the one thing I don’t think I can recover from. I say that and yet a part of me thinks that I love my W so much that just maybe I can recover from it. I don’t know. I do know this……..

You came here in pain and broken. You wanted to know how to get your W back. Along the way you learned many things about your W and about yourself and for that you will be a better man and a better H but you have not accomplished your goal just yet. The real journey begins now if you chose to take it. This is the part of the journey that if I ever get to, I know I will have the greatest challenges. Now is when you put your money where your mouth is. You have come this far. Will you stop just before the beginning? I don’t think so. I think you will be ok my friend.

NICE Mach1!!! That movie is very underrated. GREAT line!

Denver

On your last post being "honest" with the group, thank you for taking the time to write out MY EXACT sitch - now I don't have to take the time to write about all the things that I did to drive my dear W into the arms, and into the bed, of another man after 33 years of marriage.

I will write more later, off to a bible study early AM here. Let me just say this about that - let us be completely honest with each other here - NONE of us are completely honest with others- its not our nature to be completely honest with others. The only one we can be completely honest with is God. Only HE knows what lies in our heart and soul and most days he is SHOCKED beyond comprehension as to how stupid and ignorant we are. I know that when He looks at me He must be saying "Oh my ME" what an idiot I have created here and left to his own decisions and actions - what was I THINKING giving men free will.

Here is the key to my "rescue" by God - He forgives me for my sins - not an easy thing to do for sure. More on that later.

Good for you Denver - for becoming "more" honest - its a tough process - but a good one.

Firstlove

Denver,

I don't even know how hard those were to write, but I am so proud of you! I don't like the old Denver. I want you to paste your note somewhere where you can see it often so you make sure that you continue to kill any remnants of that old Denver. But, you have made some huge revelations and strides and we all love that Denver. I am just so proud of you.

Ok, buddy, so the truth... I don't really hear mention of your W being all that religious. If that is, in fact, true, then in conventional thinking, she didn't really cheat on you. This indiscretion is not something for you to necessarily forgive, but something to move on from. You told her on a number of occassions to move on. You told her that it was over. And when you were done telling her, you showed her. Keeping friends like that with women is really not good. Keeping old e-mails and letters from x's is disrespectful. I say all of this not to hurt you. But, I feel that way in my own situation right now. I do not know if my H is in an A, but what I do know is that his relationships with other women particularly the one that I am concerned about is inappropriate and has shown me just how little he cares about my feelings. If I were not committed to my vows and to God, I honestly feel as if I would be within my right to go see other people as he has told me and showed me on a number of occassions that it is over.

You have to understand that words hurt bad. Words in anger especially tear people down and we all need to be especially careful in those situations. I do not judge because I have a wicked temper and have said awful things to my H in anger. I know what buttons to push to make him feel small, and I pushed every one of them. So please know, I am not judging you.

Sweetie, you have a huge opportunity here. I would not let this A get in the way of this, especially since she volunteered never to speak to OM again.

As far as people sticking with you... are you kidding??? You stuck with all of us!!! And there are more than a few of us who probably have some confessions to make of their own. We are not perfect people. So the next big point is that you need to forgive yourself. If you don't, the guilt will eat you alive. You made mistakes, you are repenting. Stay THAT course.

You are such a great man and we are on YOUR side every minute of every day.

I'm praying for you!!!

LIS