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[quote=ScaredinCanada...we just have no PERSONAL R at all...I told her a few weeks back that I am living with a ZOMBIE![/quote]

Hay Scared, try not telling her stuff like this. When we make snide comments, it makes them feel all the more estranged from us, all the more they want to escape because the situation is so tense.
Lately, I have been more successful in keeping the atmosphere at home in a lighter mood by avoiding my H when I see in his face that he is not in a good mood, I just leave the room and go upstairs, by reading in bed, pretending we are sharing a companionable silence, and generally not speaking unless spoken to. I talk to my daughter, laugh with her, sing, play with the dog, call my friends on the phone.

I compliment his cooking, and if he does not answer, I do not act like I am offended.

Hay Scared, try not telling her stuff like this. When we make snide comments, it makes them feel all the more estranged from us, all the more they want to escape because the situation is so tense.
Lately, I have been more successful in keeping the atmosphere at home in a lighter mood by avoiding my H when I see in his face that he is not in a good mood, I just leave the room and go upstairs, by reading in bed, pretending we are sharing a companionable silence, and generally not speaking unless spoken to. I talk to my daughter, laugh with her, sing, play with the dog, call my friends on the phone.

I compliment his cooking, and if he does not answer, I do not act like I am offended.
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Great advice Angel.

I guess I shouldn't even try to console her when she seems sad or upset. I should just ignore it and focus on the kids.

Even when I got home tonight, W was leaving to goto work. She had her head down a bit just looked sad. Just out of reaction I said "Is everything ok?" to which she quickly wiped the "sad" off her face and "Ya I'm fine". Then she went off to work.

Looking forward to spending the night with the girls and then going to hockey after they are to bed.

My W called me tonight just as I was about to leave work. Wanted to remind me that she had to work. Also, wanted to tell me that she left chicken out for dinner (hasn't done that in a while).

She then told me she is going to take the girls to dance tomorrow, and then to farm demonstration or something (horse related), I said it sound good and that maybe we could go as a family. She said "I don't want you to come." I just paused and said ok.

Now she starts telling me that we don't have any trust in our relationship (my concerns that she might be having an affair mostly) and "Without trust, we don't have a relationship". Although I agree we haven't had a R in almost 3 f*&king months!! What's any different now?

At one point last week I asked her what her plan was with the extra money she'd been making (she's been working constantly), and she seemed to get upset about it. Said "I don't have any extra money". The reason why I was asking was because out VISA had gotten out of control with almost $10000 owing (honestly don't understand how) and I pretty much used my entire Christmas bonus to pay it off...which she didn't even seem to acknowledge.

Regardless she says because we don't trust each other she has changed her banking account passwords. I was kinda stunded, because it's never been a problem in the past. Heck she would ask me to logon for her. I guess I made the mistake last week of telling her I thought about snooping to see how much money she had.

Anyways, we ended by her saying "I can't go on like this, the trust issues are frustrating me". I told her I agreed and that if she wanted to talk about it and try and work through it, I would be here.

"I told her I agreed and that if she wanted to talk about it and try and work through it, I would be here."

Wrong thing to say. She's hiding something. She's either hiding money for the D or she doesn't want you to see her purchases.

You aren't the one with the trust issues. She is. I would have acknowledged the fact that you have used your Christmas bonus and that any extra funds should be going into paying you back for half. Start putting your foot down on things. Be the one in control.

Update on the sitch:

This weekend was really rough, Friday got into some heavy R talk with the W. I was trying to just validate her, but I feel like she traps me by saying outlandish things and I feel I have to defend myself. She said things like "I don't think we were ever in love, or at least not for a really long time" and "I don't believe we've ever realy been connected".

So I just proceeded to tell her, yet we planned 2 weddings, bought a house, had 2 daughters, bought another house, then had another daughter...here answer. Lots of people do that, and it doesn't necessarily mean they are in love.

I can't remember everything we talked about it got pretty emotional on both sides. After her comment about the "lack of connection" I told her I understood and that I just wanted a chance to work through the issues with her.

She made it clear she doesn't want to work on it, she just doesn't want to be with me anymore. I'm not a bad person, or a bad father - we just aren't meant to be together. She mentioned she'd been thinking about the bomb for 3 months before she actually dropped it - so she's done all of the thinking she needed.

She also said she had been trying to work on our R for the past 10+ years prior to the bomb, and that she's done trying. She's glad I'm changing but she doesn't care.

She then blurted out that she's been looking at houses, and she wants to sell our house ASAP. I'm not surprised because lately she has been packing stuff up "that we don't need" and she was talking about planning a garage sale for the spring.

I bought myself so more time, by telling her she understands that we cannot sell the house in the winter. The earliest we could list would be in April, but it would probably be best to wait until May.

I told her that this still is what I want for "US", and she always reverts back to "this isn't what YOU want, your afraid of change".

I told her about my fears, of not getting to spend as much time with the kids, the lack of "family vacations", the kids potentially blaming me for the seperation/divorce, and that I was terrified at the fact of some other [censored] guy raising my kids. My youngest is only 2!!!

That was the only thing that she seemed to respect and appreciate, was my concern that I only wanted the girls to be raised by us. I told her that I cannot predict the future, but that all of these things scare me.

By the end of it, she just said she wanted to goto bed. I told her that I would talk to her as long as it was needed - that I didn't care if it took all night. She proceeded to say "I think we should only talk in front of a lawyer or MC" this shocked me. We don't currently have a MC, and this is the first mention of a lawyer from either of us. I'm still puzzled as to where she pulled this from.

She finished by saying, "I just don't want YOU". To which I said what does that mean? I'm that horrible? You just finished telling me that I'm a good person, father and that essentially there is nothing wrong with me - you've changed. In her respond she just laughed, because again she wants someone new - she wants to feel the "dating" feeling again. When you have the butterflies and you are head over heels in love.

I hope she never finds love again...

I am in the exact same boat only my wife says she does not want another relationship. She just wants to be on her own. I guess she thinks working and the kids going to school and coming home alone is ok? Weird to me because if she would just accept me and my changes this could all be ok. I understand she does not trust that I will adhere to my changes but she seems un willing to want to give me one more try. I understand that too but for our kids I would think anything would be worth the effort. Right now she is only thinking of herself.

Scared your wife sounds the same right now, she is only thinking about what can make her happy and she is not looking in front of her at what she could have in you. Just lay back give her a break from R talk, give it a week and see if that helps. I say dig deep in your gut and try for a week.

Sorry if I mislead. My W has always said she wants to be on her own, makes it clear there is no OM and that it's certainly not why she wants leave.

She only wants to talk about things from her perspective. As long as I or anyone fully support her position then the discussion would be fine. She doesn't want anyone (especially me) to point out any potential problems/holes in her position.

Scared2Def, everyone else you say is exactly the way my W puts things. That I don't add anything to the sitch from her perspective (in her life specifically).

She basically agreed to do MC, which I'm at least grateful for...but again I truly believe she is just looking for someone else to support her position. I don't disagree with her feelings and her frustration with the sitch - it's the fact that she's not remotely interested in a "fresh start" with me.

I really need to just leave her alone for now. She is in a spot where I feel like her stubborness is making it impossible to speak any sort of options.

Although she did ask me what other options we have besides seperating.

I told her that I believed anyone in a committed R, the first step should be to try and identify and potentially fix the issues. I said if for some reason that didn't work, then potentially a trial seperation could be in order (I told I wasn't exactly sure how this would work except to say that we'd agree to seperate temporarily for a pre-determined period of time, say 1 month) and then try again with the R. I then said that I believed that an official seperation would be the next option and obviously eventually divorce if things didn't improve from there.

She seemed to be impressed by my breakdown, but I think it meant little to her. As I still think she believes seperation is the ONLY option.

Regardless I'm going to look into setting up MC, but I think I should wait a week or so for things to cool down a bit.

I'm going to ask for a C that is "pro marriage", but I know previusly with the IC that didn't mean crap.

What else should I have as criteria? Should I expect the C to have working knowledge of DB?

Again, I'm not looking to salvage my M/R at ANY cost but I want to give it the best and fairest shot possible to succeed.

Lately I've been getting worried about this now being more my W's issue, and even if somehow we reconcile that it's only a matter of time until she "wants to leave again".

I just wish I understood what is driving her desire to "see what else is out there", because I'm positive there isn't an OM right now.

It couldn't be just the silly country music she listens too could it?!?!

It's not the country music.

My W listens to classic rock. It's those dam subliminal messages: "LEAVE YOUR HUSBAND, COME WITH US, BE A GROOPIE".

LOL - Habit your awesome. I wish we could go for a drink!

I feel like every country song is about how great cowboys are...and I can't help but believe this has played a part at least it giving my W the confidence to make this "move".

She's always wanted to buy her own farm, and it's something we've been working towards for about 10 years, we've just never been able to afford it.

In the last couple years, she's really adopted a "country type of lifestyle" wearing cowboy boots, jeans, and a flanel shirt more often than not. I truly believe she things there is "a cowboy out there for her" that they will have everything in common and thus have "true love".

The reality is...I can't compete with that. I'm not a cowboy, and I don't even enjoy country music, except for a couple of songs. I think she takes that as a huge "we don't match"...

She tells me that she's changed, but honestly I have no issues with the changes. Seeing her in a pair of cowboy boots and jeans is something I've enjoyed.

Any suggestions on the MC? You seem to have a pretty good one.

Scared... Your situation is very similar to mine. The comments made by your wife are exactly what my wife has told me. I would be very concerned about the potential of OM. My wife initially denied the existence of OM and told me the same things your wife has said.

It just didn't add up in my mind and I paid close attention to what she was up to. Turns out she was/is having an EA with a co-worker. Although there was nothing going after hours etc, there were lots of lunches, coffee breaks, texting and email messages.

The basis for all of her actions and behaviour became crystal clear once I confirmed the EA. I never thought my wife would be the type of person to cheat. When the bomb was dropped, I asked her about another man and she said she would never do that.

I am not saying that your wife is involved with someone else, but I wouldn't be too quick to rule it out.