Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Is the tide turning???????

I am cheering you on too!! Goodluck tonight!

(((((GAG)))))

I am sending you loads of good wishes for tonight.

Perfect timing for a chat with Jody

Thank you for your care and prayers for me. I am so
thankful for the support of my friends, you are a good friend.

H has decided to go to court tomorrow, I had so hoped he wouldn't. I fear that it will make it very hard on me. I am afraid to break down. I am going to go in there like a big girl and hope that I get what I am asking for.

Can't wait to read your update in the wee hours tomorrow.

Sanderika

Enjoy your day off GAG. Enjoy TT and I'll pop back tomorrow for your update.

Cas

Seeking, Missher, Lorie, Sanderika, and Cas,

Thank you all for your encouragement. You are all SO wonderful! I want you to know how much I appreciate you all. Meeting you and everyone else here has been the best part of this very bad dream.

......speaking of dreams...........last night I spent some time preparing notes for my session with Jody this morning (will report on that when I have time). As I reviewed my posts here I was pretty amazed at all of the positive interactions between me and XH over the past month or so. Probably because of that, I had an interesting dream last night. I dreamt that I was traveling through a series of underground rooms that looked like basements in a 150 year old house (kinda like a series of adjoining rooms in a dungeon). There were laboratory benches with research equipment on them and at one point I realized that it was evening and there were a bunch of young adults in white coats coming back from dinner to return to their positions at the benches to continue doing their experiments into the late evening hours. After some difficulty, I managed to exit this area and the next thing I knew I was in a nice, new, brightly lit kitchen/great room area being hugged by XH. We were hugging and kissing and it was really nice! In my dream I "knew" that we were back together again..........After a long period of time hugging and kissing we were interrupted by the repeated buzzing sound of an intercom (the kind that apartment buildings have). XH's heart started pounding and he stiffened slightly because he didn't want to go to the door to talk to the person there. In my dream I knew that it was GF#2 outside the house, buzzing to get XH to come to the door.........Then I woke up.................I guess the meaning of this dream is pretty clear. It's weird. I have only had one other dream of H/XH and I kissing since the bomb.

Wish that dream had been a premonition of this evening's TT game but it wasn't! XH's mother was admitted to the hospital last night (nothing serious, just a tune-up, she'll be out in 1-2 days) and he texted me from the hospital this afternoon that he would be at TT at 6:30pm. Unfortunately, I didn't realize he was saying that he would be late, because he didn't say he would be late in the text.......so I was there at 6pm (the original time) wondering what was going on. At 6:30pm XH texted me to say he would be late. He didn't get there until 6:45pm so we were only able to play for about an hour. He was very focused on playing, didn't really chit chat, or leave much opportunity for flirting. We played hard and I won T-H-R-E-E games!!!!!!!! XH won 6 games. The most I have ever won before was one game. XH said that it was probably time to change my 6 point handicap. (I think he was kinda serious.) XH was sweating....so I walked up really close to him and said "You're really sweating! Your heart is beating really fast! (and put my hand over his heart)". He didn't pull away from me, but didn't really respond. Then he got down on the floor (push-up position) to look for TT balls under a table and I said "Wow! You're really strong!". He smiled at me (like he was proud of his manliness) and then did about 4-5 push-ups (he had good form!). I said "I won three games! I'm going to that new neighborhood restaurant to celebrate with a glass of wine! If you'd like to come with me, you're welcome." XH looked a little nervous, like he was being choked by a short metaphorical leash that his GF#2 was holding, and said "I'm supposed to be somewhere." We then walked out to our cars. I asked XH if he would text me when he knew the timing of his mother's hospital discharge so I could figure out whether or not it made sense to visit her there. XH gave me a wimpy hug, we got in our cars and drove away.......I went to the restaurant and celebrated my VICTORY!!!!!!!!

So in the last week, XH has really cooled off his contact. It really ticked me off that XH was so businesslike with me, rushing in and out, but I realize that if he wasn't interested at all, he would have canceled our game because he had the perfect excuse with his mother in the hospital. This is the second time in a row that XH has been 30 or more minutes late to TT. It's probably time to show him that I deserve more consideration than that. Not sure if a direct approach or indirect approach is better????

After I got home I calmed down a bit and wrote XH this e-mail:
"Mr GAG, You ran away so quickly tonight, you looked like you saw a ghost! Didn't mean to scare you by winning T-H-R-E-E games. ;-) I wanted to ask you how you like your iPad. I'm thinking about using one to operate a new stereo system. :-( Maybe we shouldn't play PP anymore. I wouldn't want to scare you so much that you "pee your pants" or anything. ;-) BTW, the restaurant was very cozy. Met some nice people. GAG"

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Don't think I want to play TT with XH anymore if he keeps this up.

Thanks for listening folks and I'm ready for your 2 x 4s........

GAG

Hi GAG - wow - congrats on the wins


you got it...he could have canceled...but he didn't. To me it looks more like some kind of internal struggle...trying to work things out in his mind....you may be right, that struggle may involve GF#2, but you probably have something to do with it as well, maybe she already knows that he plays with you and doesn't like it...but this is all just speculations...just let him work it out, give him space and time and continue with what you are doing.

I actually like the tone of your e-mail to him...keeping it light, friendly, no pressure...teasing a bit...

...unless he is the type of a guy that gets peeved off when he gets beaten by a girl?????? If not then no 2x4s from me

GAG,

Absolutely no 2x4's here.....you did great!! Yeah, kinda sux that your XH was preoccupied and late but honestly he did have a pretty good reason and the really good thing here is that he let you know he was going to be later and even let you know that he was running late for that time. The other glaring positive here is the fact that he kept the date. You are important enough to him that he did not want to stand you up.

******WARNING: MISSHERLOVE WILL NOW MINDREAD MR. GAG *********

Okay a couple of observations... Mr. GAG has a GF and he has been playing TT with you for like 2 months now on a regular basis?? His GF has got to know by now that he is playing TT with someone......if she doesn't know then your XH is hiding it from her and that would be great news for you!!! Realistically.....this is probably not the case.

That leaves 2 scenarios. 1.She knows he is playing TT with his XW or 2. She knows he is playing TT in a league/someone else. In either case it does not bode well for the relationship IMO. If I were his GF, I would not want him playing TT with his XW everyweek and if he has not told her that he is playing TT with his XW and she is not inquisitive then IMO the relationship is doomed....We kinda talked about this early on, your XH even said that this GF is on the way out, if I remember correctly. Bottom line his actions reinforce he does not care about her or her feelings. (not casting your XH in a bad light, just stating the facts).

More mindreading.....His comment about "I'm supposed to be somewhere" was very purposely vague......WHY???

He really doesn't want to kill his chances with you by mentioning that he is going to do something with another woman, even though it is obvious what he has to do. He likes/respects you enough to not say that to you. Make sense???

********* MHL has stopped mindreading**************

So things did not go where you wanted them to go last night.....

SUX......welcome to the world of dating....LOL.

Yes.....dating your XH.



Take a breath, don't make any rash decisions here....observe the 24 to 48 hour rule and IMO, you should let him drive the next TT date.....meaning, let him call or contact you.

I still think that you need to step out of your comfort zone and ask him out to eat or for drinks in advance. This way he can plan for it and make the time in his schedule. The perfect opportunity would be when he contacts you to schedule the next TT session.

You could call him on the phone and say....

"Mr. GAG, I would love to kick your a$$ in TT again....hahahaha so Wednesday works great for me.....seriously I do enjoy playing TT with you and spending time with you, would you like to go to dinner with me?"

That is it, do not ask him to go at a specific time, if he says yes and asks when, ask him what works for him. Or if your feeling "flirty" you could respond with, "that is great that you want to go out with me, maybe I will accept your invitation if you ask nicely...." I know we covered this already but it is worth mentioning again.........

I would be interested in what Jody said to you.....I bet she said be a little forward with him......be bold......ask for what you want!!!!

While the sound system thing is a great idea and it is a reason for you guys to be together........

that is all it is.....a reason for you to be together, it is not a date. If it happens and you guys go shopping, and you drop a boat load of money on a hi fi sound system and he comes over and helps you set it up and nothing happens you are just going to come back here frustrated and a little poorer......right????

Look, let me give you a little glimpse into my world again....

I have been doing the internet dating thing....has been alot of fun.......do you know why????

Because everyone on the site is interested in dating!!!!! DUH.

When I am talking to a woman via chat, email, text or phone I am communicating with them because I am interested in a romantic relationship....I have found that sometimes this purpose gets blurred because people get afraid that the other person may be losing interest in them and they settle for "friend time" with the person they are interested in instead of "romantic time".

Stop settling for "friend time", I would hate to see you get pissed at Mr. GAG because he is following your lead.....what are you leading him to?????

This really works, the woman I am dating now has many guy friends that she has met on Match that are just friends and they constantly contact her and vey for her attention by doing her favors and other stuff. I recognized this early on and on our 3rd or 4th date I could sense that I was getting handed the "friend" card.....I flat out told her "I do not want to be your friend, I have lots of friends and I while the relationship I desire to have with you requires that we be friends, I want more."

You should have seen the look on her face....priceless!!!

I guarantee you that Mr. GAG would have the same reaction.....what do you have to lose???

If you never tell him your wants and desires and you stop playing TT with him.....what is the difference in that scenario and the one where you step out of your comfort zone and tell him that you enjoy spending time with him and want to spend more time with him in a different setting that is more romantic, and he says no and you still stop seeing him.

Outcome is the same........right??????

I like option "B"

BTW.....I am going to see that woman tonight who very clearly is not my "friend", LOL.

Cheers

I spoke with Jody on Wednesday morning (before TT with XH). My notes are below.

Mila and Missher, thank you very much for your responses above. I'll reply to them next.

Jody agreed with Missher and said that people often settle for friendship with their WASs because they are afraid to risk the loss of that friendship to move into the next stage: Romance. She recommended that when I am with Mr. GAG, I should continue to be flirty but minimize contact with him in between. Limiting contact heightens the enjoyment when contact occurs. This is called “arousal”. Romance always involves risk and that’s what makes it exciting. She said to “mix it up” and put him off his guard. Flirtation should be energetic flirtatious fun. After you’ve flirted, be gone. Do not pursue. She recommended staying well-energized and rejuvenated in other aspects of my life to make sure I don’t get down and take care of myself.

I asked Jody if my idea of asking XH to give me his feedback about a new sound system would be a good way to break the pattern of only playing TT. Told her I was getting bored with just that and felt the need to mix it up a bit. She said that with XH having 3 leaks in his roof and being down about his BMF’s actions as of late (warring with BMF’s XW), that XH may feel resentful that I am considering upgrading my house when he is not. She said that I should be trying to make him feel “big”. She said that I should try to match him, not exceed him. (Side note: the flirting book also recommends mirroring behavior as a way to attract the person you are interested in.) XH just bought an iPad for Christmas, so she said I should ask him about his new iPad. Ask him what the apps are like, etc. She said that I should suggest that we go to a new restaurant after playing TT (e.g. “I thought I’d like to check out that new restaurant over on XXXXX. Maybe you’d like to go with me?”).

She recommends this book by Jedd Diamond: “Mr. Mean: Saving your Relationship from the Irritable Male Syndrome”. Diamond, who is a therapist specializing in male MLC after having gone through a MLC at one point in his life, talks about how men seem to have a more restricted perspective on love than women do. Women can make the shift from limmerance (i.e. infatuation) to caring and having loving feelings and positive regards for their spouses in a more global sense. When men say “I’m not in love with you” they say it because they don’t feel the intensity they felt in the beginning. They mean “I feel that the hot, addictive component of our R has worn thin.” …… What a man is really saying is “I don’t feel that much passion in my life anymore” which is different than what the woman is hearing (“I don’t love you any more”). Unfortunately, when we (women) feel rejected, we start acting in ways that make us more unattractive. This makes the situation worse. Jody said that it must be rather perplexing for Mr. GAG at present because with my flirtations I am teasing him with exactly what he needs the most.

The primary reason men leave is that they are overwhelmed with shame. Diamond says they feel ashamed that they feel so needy for love and nurture. They are aware that they are not meeting the needs of other people. Most deeply they feel ashamed over things that seem so trivial on the surface. (I’m leaving you because you gained weight, because you work too much, etc.). They leave because they’re unhappy with themselves and their life. Men feel they need to leave the R to keep the core of their identity from being destroyed. In their state of mind, leaving is the most kind thing they can do to keep their current upheaval from ruining the R. They leave because they feel the long suppressed childhood traumas coming to the surface.

For flirting to be a healthy flirt it needs to be generous. It’s not done in a way that implies any expectation of reciprocity. I should look at taking on this flirting as a way of refining my flirting skills. If this doesn’t change R with Bob, I will be learning skills for another person. The person who is flirtatious doesn’t care what reaction she gets. She is confident. That is really the difference between effective flirting (our goal) and flirting that stems from a woman’s neediness…….and a man knows the difference. Its like “I am so comfortable in my own skin, I don’t care how you respond to this.”. I’m just doing this because I enjoy being this way.

She said “You’ve only known Mr. GAG when he was in mid-life. He may have been more of an initiator (i.e. physically) before mid-life.” She gave an example of a client whose H did not initiate $exually while in mid-life but had been the aggressor when they were younger.

She agreed with everyone’s interpretation of why BMF contacted me a couple times in late November and early December. She said that BMF could see that I was going to continue to be a part of XH’s life, so he was making a gesture to move toward me.

Jody also said that she has been counseling a handful of women with WAHs for 2-3 years now and that there has been surprising progress in a number of these situations. One example she gave was of a WAH who was totally out of contact with his family initially for a long period of time, but over the course of 2-3 years had progressed to the point where he spent an entire week with his W recently.

GAG

Forgot to add.........one light bulb moment that occurred during the session was the insight that until it feels like more work to reconnect with XH than to find a new love that I can know in my heart is "not settling", there will be no incentive for me to get out there and really look for someone. I guess I am a bit jaded in that I've been around the block a few times. I know from experience that it takes an awful lot of effort to see if someone new has the depth of character to stand the test of time with respect to integrity, companionship, and just plain physical attractiveness. Makes me tired just writing about it. I think that those men exist out there (a lot of the DB'ing men are great examples of that), but I can honestly say that I can't think of any M'ed or single men I know in real life, other than XH, who are the whole package. That is probably what is keeping me on this path now.

GAG

GAG - very interesting information...I like when you post your recap of your sessions with Jody, she is able to look at the situation from the outside and that combined with her training and experience can certainly enlighten you and all of us on many points that we struggle with in our situations. I read and re-read it with interest....she is making lots of sense.



This is probably why I stand, because I know that we were right for each other, happy for many years.....as you said it's not easy to find someone that is compatible on so many levels and will withstand the test of time....some people will never find that....I'm doubting that I would ever find that kind of relationship I had with H again.

GAG,

Thank you for posting about your session with Jody. I am going to look for that book. I really learned alot from this information. I am still knew to this, but in reading your post, I feel I learned so much about MLC, OW and what H has said to me in the past. I am going to try to mirror his behavior and try to flirt, but not for him, for me. I need to learn how to flirt again. I am totally out of practice, and why not practice on him. Whether he responds or not doesn't really matter, but I will need the skills again if he wants to come back or for another man one day when I am ready.

Thank you again, and God Bless!