My W and I have been together for over 20 years, 20th anniversary later this month (no celebrations, though). Both 42. We have a D 11 and S 3 yo.
In Jan 98 she was admitted for 6 weeks to deal with her alcoholism. Until the night before she went, I never knew she was an alcoholic.
Yes, many times she drank too much. I never knew how much, though.
We had NO family or joint therapy at all when this all began. For all I knew -- she would go to the hospital, then "be better!"
Later in the spring I started seeing a therapist myself b/c things at home were nuts -- did not make any sense. I did not know that she had begun first of several EA's at that point.
It took me maybe 5 months of therapy and al-anon to get that this was a family disease. To understand why it was so tough for her (and me, us as a family).
At the beginning, though, I'd ask her to talk with her drs, to learn more. And after she came out of the hospital -- and seemed no better, actually worse, I kept asking -- and was always told "no."
By the end of '98 I pretty much assumed there was someone else (but rationalized that she was "too sick" for that to happen). By April of 99 I had proof -- a phone call from a co-worker. (which was right on the money -- by that point she had had 3 EA's with men at her office).
SHe denied it completely, even in the counseling sessions we had together. We actually went on a fun family vacation together in early summer. When we got back, our first session -- I told her that I knew about the affairs -- and could not live like this.
Things actually got better, fun, loving through the summer. And then, she began the next EA.
During all this she also lost her job. She began spending (and still does) 6 - 8 hours a day on the internet -- chatting and cybersex.
In October I had it -- told her in a counseling session that I could not live like this anymore -- no more lies, secrets, other persons. I will not live my life like that, and I will do everything I can to stop this pattern for our children. (both of W's parents are alcohilics, both unfaithful in their 50 year marriage, W's father true philanderer).
SHe responded -- she will never love me like a husband, only friend. We decided to divorce.
I figured she'd move out, maybe even move in with OM. But she is still at home. Or thought she'd take legal action. So far -- nothing.
Its very sad -- our existence together is polite, but hardly friendly. There are moments where we have laughs, smiles -- but few. She hardly looks at me.
I am in "full DB" -- Plan B mode (as much as one can with spouse in the house). I initiate as little contact as possible -- never call or email socially. I do not ask about her day. And unless she asks, I tell little of mine .
I have a great time -- go out with friends occasionally, come home every night with a smile and chuckle. Except for my marriage -- many parts of my life could not be better. My relationship with the kids as as strong/better than ever.
I am still angry at all the control she had for so many years over me. And how much she still exerts. (my alanon friends are not so polite -- they tell me to cut off the internet, stop paying for her medical bills ($200 - 400/week in therapy - not covered), make her pay for her car, etc.).
And I think that I am much more controlled than I ought to be. I am standing up for me more and more, trying not to let her influence me.
I keep in mind that this is "all about her" and not me. (oh yeah, I have admitted my mistakes to her -- some she did not know about -- and taken repsonsibility).
The holidays are hard -- Sat night we all piled into the car, rode around the town looking at xmas lights, singing carols and songs. It felt good. Like what I would like things to be like. But they are not.
We have a large xmas tree (15') -- put the lights on last night. In past years, W would call me down to the living room -- we'd sit on the sofa, in front of the tree and talk, enjoy eachother. Last night, I layed down on the sofa myself. Its (once again) the most beautiful tree we've ever had.
Thanked God for getting myself back this year. Thanked God for the joy of my 2 kids. Thanked him for the blessings of friends, of support and caring from others.
And for the hope of moving forward -- whatever that looks like.
It has been awhile since I have posted on your thread. I hope you had a nice holiday. I also think you gave Helen some good advice on our thread in Infidelity.
Need your great perspective on things. Went to see one of Michele's couselers and the DB center and she suggested, like you, that I should detach even more. Well as I explaned to her that is what I have been doing and I see things getting worse not better. The more I seem to pull away from my wife the more she pulls away from me.
We had not talked about us until last night. OM's wife called me to tell me that they are still having 1 to 2 hour conversations daily. I already knew this was going on and asked my wife in a nice way why they where continuing. She said that OM is not our problem and that if she stopped talking to him things would not just get better.
I told her that not only is she hurting me she is hurting OM's wife given that she has asked my wife a number of times to please not call her husband. My wife says that their marriage problems are not her problems.
She got into a conversation with my mom the other day and told her that I was always trying to compete with her and win everything. She was tired of feeling like a second class person. She realizes that I have made some changes loves me but is still very upset with me. Tells my mom the problem is not with OM but with us.
I know she is still trying because she is going to counseling and I do know she does love me. I told her in this same conversation that maybe I am not the person she wants to spend the rest of life with. I also mentioned that divorce does nothing to medicate the pain that we both have. I think she really agrees with that point. She just seems so stuck. Says she is very happy with her life and who she is. Seems to have fun at times and treats our kids well.
So detaching seems to be driving us further apart and not bringing us any closer. She is stuck and can't seem to move forward yet continues to talk to OM. The other day was the first time we talked about us and she was the one that brought it up. I am seem to be my wits end not really knowing what the next step is and losing patience. How much do think the OM still plays in this dea?
OM has gone to see a lawyer and is no longer wearing his wedding ring. His wife is DBing big time and has even called a my wife a couple of times to try and be nice to her.
Hi Sue, I'm sorry to hear you're not doing well. Life can be very tough, especially when you throw in a dose of marital strife. I'm feeling better than I felt when I wrote the last post, but I believe your advice to be true. Thank you for taking the time. You must really love this, either that or you have a tremendous sense of duty to your common man. I am unsure if I will be posting on this board any further. Through a screwy chain of events hub has found out I frequent this site. Don't feel safe baring my soul here anymore. Sad. I've really enjoyed it here. I've erased many of my posts so as to stave off any possible marital strife. It would hurt hub if he could read my mind and know what I was thinking from moment to moment. I feel if he read this board it would be similar to reading my private thoughts.
Anyway, I wish you well.
Take care of yourself. I'll pop in here to see how everyone is, but I can't post about my life anymore, not in the uncensored way I have in the past.
Hi Sue, hub says he isn't coming to this site, it's just that he knows of it now, and I don't trust him not to read it in a moment of desperation. Since he broke into my email account I fear he will invade my privacy in other ways. It's sad because I never used to feel this way, but then again, he never used to feel I would betray him. I've been very depressed lately and don't think I have anything uplifting to offer anyone on this board anyway. Traditionally, January just isn't my month.
sorry to hear that. and I do know how you feel! if misery truly does love company. My H thinks it is his right to go through all my mail, and gets mad if I delete any. he used to wake me up in the middle of the night all mad because he had run accross replies that he couldnt find the original message meaning I deleted it and was hiding something. I try to make it a habit to delete all my mail but sometimes I get lazy and my inbox gets loaded with messages, I get so much mail everyday and cant get to it all so I leave stuff to make sure I reply.
sorry you are depressed. me too. and I am on meds. at the moment I am feeling like my life is more then I can handle. But hey I ve muddled through much harder times with a lot less knowledge.
hang in there. you know where to find me if you ever need an ear. I think you give wonderful help to the board. just your feelings help so much.
It has been awhile since I have posted and I could use some more of your great advice. I think you know my history wife had an EA with stay at home dad across the street. Still has contact with him but they are just friends now and I should not worry about their relationship. Both of us are in counseling right now.
My wife has been acting a little better towards me and has agreed to go on a trip with myself and the kids early next month. I have been trying to back off and not bringing up us or the OM and giving her space. I have had a few backslides but all in all I have really tried to let her work through things.
So what's the problem you ask? Well it is that I get treated like her brother and not her husband. There is no intimicay between us at all and there has not been any over the last three months. Even before then it had become almost nil and I don't see the log jam breaking anytime soon.
So my question to you is if we are not really talking about us. How do you go from a platonic relationship to one where you are husband and wife again? Can this happen if she is still talking to OM all the time? I remember you saying that it took over a year for you to come back to your husband? What do you think?
thats a tough one for me. Because although it took me over a year to decide to let go of om in my heart, my relationship with my H never went platonic for more then a week.
are you really asking if you should just give up on your marriage? I am sorry but I feel like you feel the situation is totally hopeless as long as she talks to om so you feel you should just give up now and you want me to okay that for you???? only a feeling I have when reading your posts, I could be way off, thats why I ask.
One of the biggest problems I have with my H is because he would never let go of the sexual relations with me. Oh yeah he kept agreeing to but would not! he lasted the week we were seperated and maybe 3 days after comming home but thats it. nagged and begged and guilt tripped me into it. Actually thats one of the major things that holds me back from opening my heart to him now, was his selfishness and putting himself first when sex was such an emotionally painful experience for me. Before he got help for his drinking, our sex life was a nightmare for me. it started to get really bad when I was pregnant with our 3rd child who is now 5. he would hold me down and force himself on me. I would fight back and he would punch my legs and throw me around until he got his way. he would yell at me and call me a whore saying I was giving it out to everyone else and thats why I didnt feel like it with him. But he was drunk and smelled bad and of course I didnt want to. this why even today its hard for me to truly believe him when he goes on and on about how sorry he is for being such a monster before. When his actions speak so diferently. When he wasnt willing to accept no for an answer. then last night he was yelling at me telling me the only reason I didnt want to have sex with him back then was because I didnt want to be sleeping with two men and I belonged to om. This was not true!!! I only talked to om on the phone and email.
this is why this is dificult for me to answer your questions there. I know it takes time to move from a platonic relationship to a marital one. Remember you are kind of starting over yet slightly in the red. because you have a little further truck to go then you did the first time when you first met her. If you read ChrisJ's posts and threads, his W is no longer talking to om and hasnt for quite some time but they still have not reached the point of intimacy yet! check out his threads in "piecing our marriage back together" forum.
I dont know if I really answered your question here. this is the best answer I have for you.
I think you are doing good and on the right track. I know it must be dificult for you to be patient with all you have been through and getting your needs met right now. I understand the whole thing about men not feeling loved with out the intimacy. this is a tough ride you are on. try to focus on the positive steps forward you have acheived so far. I am sure she will need to feel in love with you again before she can be intimate. thats how I felt anyways.
Thanks for the response. I can't say that I feel hopeless. But I will say that I am losing patience and I think that my wife knows it. It is clear that she is "not in love" with me. She loves me but more like a brother. I do see some progress albeit very slowly and that is the problem.
Even before the EA my wife was not what I would consider a very sexual. Now it is like the North Pole and I know it is something that bothers her greatly. Funny thing is over the last two months I have not even asked her for sex because I know what the answer is going to be and I don't want to pressure her.
I am not hopeless but my frusration sure is reaching it's maximum point. It almost can make a man think about having an affair. I know that is not the answer but at somepoint there is a need for affection. Sounds like as long as she is talking with OM there is not much hope. BTW OM's wife called me a couple of weeks ago. Told me that they are not having sex, which I find ver strange for a male. What is your take on that?
Well Bob, personally I think that does look bad! but its hard to say for sure. maybe he is going through something that some men go through... does he have a low drive anyways like some men do? I have read stuff in the sexual issues forum that were surprising to me because I thought all men were pretty much like my H as far as a high drive. But I have read a lot about men who have a very very low drive or are sensitive and just cant seem to be with their wives while there is such turmoil in the relationship. Also you mentioned before he seems depressed... I think you mentioned that. anyhow one of the major symptoms of depression is low or no drive. your W and him could both be depressed. I know om in my situation was depressed and put on meds after we quit talking, just like I was. I am not saying it was because of me but there was a lot of stress in their marriage and many things going on in his life that caused depression just like in my case.
I agree with you that is/was a major red flag for me. His wife is very concerned about that because he has never really had a low sex drive. Can a man be so wrapped up in an EA that it affects his feelings for his wife sexually?
Funny the last time we talked about "us" with my wife. I brought up the fact about her and OM still talking (I know not the right thing to do) about her EA and called it an affair. She laughed and said how can you call this friendship an affair.
My thoughts are that they are both still so caught up in something that they really don't want to be in. That they had this connection that they will never have with their spouses. You know the story. Anyway OM has talked to a lawyer and was not wearing his wedding ring for awhile.
My wife told me she was proud that when she talks with him that she no longer has the same feelings for him that she did before. That I should back off and trust her even though she has told me she felt that connection with him, which I have backed way off.
Our counseler who is seeing us both as indvs told me that OM is the whole reason right now that we are having problems. She has told her a couple of times that she needs to stop talking to OM. I asked her what I should be doing different and she said nothing. Just keep being the best person and husband that you can be. Who knows where this thing leads. I am sure as you where she is struggling with her feelings. As you say the sex thing with him does have me worried.
