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Guess what people in HIGHLY successful marriages most of us would kill for - do yell and scream and argue. It's a fact of life. (read the 7 principles for making marriage work) But it's how you yell, argue and scream that also is telling.

The other issue is that calm validating approach can also have the "superiority" issue, I talked about. when you SO is going nutz and you calm and rationale you might look you are trying to 1-up them. Sometimes they want you to yell and scream too.

Obviously, when your marriage is in crisis, it's not the best time for this, but just FYI.

Harrier, you and I agree that arguing is necessary...

But like you said, the R needs to be very strong and stable for that type of interaction...

BUT yelling and screaming are unnecessary. I mean come on, are you really communicating if you are yelling and svreaming?

I am full blooded Italian and have done my share of yelling and screaming. And I don't feel superior, its just that we evolve through life experiances. And no, not MORE evolved then my W. Just evolved...

"The other issue is that calm validating approach can also have the "superiority" issue, I talked about."

I disagree. Let's put it this way. Do you like getting yelled at? What if you were getting in an argument and your W said, "you know I see what you're getting at. Here's what I think.." What would make you want to listen to?

I think the more we tend to yell at each other, the higher the chance for emotions to get out of control and old unresolved issues start bubbling to the surface which have nothing to do with the problem at hand, and escalates the conflict.

Question for this group:

When I did my boundary setting over the weekend with my H, he asked me if he could see OW one more time, as friends, in a sense for closure. I said no. Somehow, right now, its bugging me. I am thinking of telling hm to go ahead and have one last talk with her. I know OW does not want him, but he seems to still be in that last stages of hoping.

I don't know yet what my motives are: maybe I want him to be happier (he is depressed and sad, of course, and so distant), maybe I am a softie (I don't think so), maybe I just want him to face the truth (specially since I know from OW herself that she is not interested)....

Whatever it is, will it have any benefit? Will I just appear weak?

I think you did exactly the right thing!

Tell him to put that energy into the M...

If he wants cloture, he can write a letter or email WITH YOU THERE!

If you ask me, he is trying to sustain any type of connection with OW.

SBH
Yelling and screaming don't have to be unnecessary. But, come we are human not robots. I'm not saying you launch into yelling, but to claim that they are unnecessary is foolish I think. Look at the book I referenced. This guy did actual studies on married couples and found that even those who yelled and screamed could have highly successful marriages. I'm not asking you to take my word...read his work. Focusing on whether you yelling or not totally misses the point and if you focus on that, you could be back here in a year. You can be 10X more hurtful and harm the marriage without ever raising your voice. So patting yourself on the back for not yelling doesn't really mean anything to me, if you don't argue the way to preserve the marriage.

Mr. Bond.
I disagree 110%. And your post actually proves it. You attempt to belittle the "yeller." The person who doesn't yell can actually think they are better because they don't lose control. It's basic psychology.
As for your example, it really depends on the situation. If my wife and I were arguing about my driving and I was going the wrong way on a one-way street. I'd hope to God she'd yell at me.
If my wife never yelled at me, I'd think something was wrong with her. All I'm saying is that it's OK to yell, if you do it in a certain way.


But No one is going to agree 100% on things. but I'm darn sure my yelling or lack of yelling is not the reason I'm in the situation I'm in.

SBH,

Thanks, I like your advice. I actually thought of saying that he can go vivist if I were with him.

here's the rest of the story....

This AM he said he was going to use a free ticket to go to LA. He gave me his word that he was not going to go to the city in SoCal where OW is. He did not say though that he was not going to try to contact her, so for me that already was a red flag.

This then made me start thinking that since he was going to be there and might make a move to see OW, I might as well allow him to. Thats why I had all of the above questions. I am in the middle of work so had to make my questions brief.But everyone's response pointed out to that making me look like I could not hold on to my boundaries, so I held my tongue.

This afternoon, he calls me and said he is not going to push through. He sounded sort of relieved in a sense .... My guess is he tried to contact OW and she said no. True enough, when I checked our cellphone records, there were a couple of texts.I have a feeling now that he is on the road to accepting that OW does not want him, for some reason (maybe the tone of his voice? I have been very intutitive about his feelings n the past).

Now my dilemma is do I call him on this. Do I expose that I know he tried to break his NC promise? or do I just pretend I don't know anything and observe?

I am not freaked out, not even really hurt, as I know and accept that H is not really conscious or accepting of any feelings for me as of this moment.

Hi Angel,
I'm gonna let one of the vets respond... You see, I feel the need to expose everything. Only because I feel so strongly that I will not be with my W if she continues to disrespect me...

I know that has nothing to do with DB and everything to do with pride and ego, so I'm not sure I can give you the best advice.

He stepped past your boundary, lied and planned to see OW. That makes me so angry...

SBH,

Thank you for caring , it really touches me.... Sometimes I feel so much like giving all the peoplehere a huge big group hug....

One thing that DB has taught me, and that all my reading as well, is patience real giving, and knowing your goals. I will understand that he is stil raw and that he is human .... who knows, he needs that final rejection to close that chapter in his life.

H usually is not a dishonest person, he usually will come clean after some time. Funny because in our past life, he was the one who always would get mad at me for making "short cuts". I will probably wait for a bit and see where this will go....

I try to always be honest, and sometimes I may be painfully honest here on the board, but it is my way of trying to help....so here it is.

Do I still think of OM? Not unless something is said here on the board that makes me think of the way I was back then, or things he use to tell me,etc. I never think of him in a "longing" way....and that is the God's honest truth! I've never been sorry for ending the EA. Whenever I think about that time, it's almost like trying to remember a bad dream.

I went through hard grieving for the first 4 months, then it very slowly faded as each month passed. My mistake & the problem I had, was that I would go to bed alone, and lay there allowing my mind to wonder at night. I could stay busy during the daytime....but then when I was alone or let my mind drift......

I was coming here to the board for support, and I realized what I was doing. I was keeping the "fantasy" alive, even though I knew I would not pursue the A with OM. That seemed almost another battle within itself....to stop the fantasy. It had been my escape route, but not a good one. As long as I would allow myself to fantasize, then I was not going to feel true remorse and seek forgiveness; be able to even forgive myself(which turned out to be the hardest part); nor be able to have feelings for my H again.

I have never thought I made a mistake by staying with my H. I knew the whole EA/OM thing was wrong for me, but it did not make it any easier. Seems like it would, doesn't it? However, it is the personal hell the WAW has to face and deal with it. Believe me, I wanted to be back to normal as badly as my H did, but it just wasn't that easy.

Do I miss OM? No! But in the beginning of the break-off, I did. But, it wasn't necessarily "him", that I missed. It was the whole package of the EA. Another man could have been on the other side of my computer in his place. Does that make sense? B/c I was not in love with that man for himself. I loved how he was feeding my ego. I loved how he made me feel for a few minutes out of the day. I could forget reality and for awhile. Big difference in that and in loving the man himself.

It took time for me to figure all of that out. And, the fact I had so many years of resentment toward my H, made things take longer for me. It took me close to two years to start feeling "normal" again. Doesn't mean it will take your W that long. It doesn't mean the fog won't lift before then. Doesn't mean you can't be intimate before then. Everyone is different. My stitch was different with other problems. But it usually takes longer than a few months to get back to feeling normal again.

Yes, I do believe that I entered into a EA b/c of being so lonely and unhappy for many years. I needed my H to give me emotional intimacy and he didn't know how. I needed him to talk with me, and he didn't. I begged him to go to MC with me, and he wouldn't. The stress of so many serious problems (not related to our M) had taken its toll on us physically & emotionally until I felt dead inside. None of that excused my EA, but it helped put me in a vulnerable place. I believe if a H is fulfilling his W's emotional needs, then she will not be vulnerable if some OM tries to get her attention. The same applies for the W fulfilling her H.

Your W can recover. It will be hard and it will take more time than you want. Some think it's limbo. Some say thay had rather D than go through it. But I know the M can heal, she can feel love for you, and you can be happy again.

As long as both of you are willing to do whatever you can to fulfill your S, then I don't believe she will have a need or desire to "explore" with anyone else.

((hugs))