Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Am I piecing? Just can't tell...

Get your balls back... Absolutly!

In fact, that is the very essence of DB.

Easier said then done sometimes!

I see progress right there. Even though it seems painfully slow, that is how she will be able to work through her issues. I think it's important to let her initiate with intimate moves. Clinging to the edge of the bed is a powerful body language, so is the fact she is relaxing more. She sees that you are not going to pounce on her.

I agree with something you suggested on another thread to a newcomer. Practice giving her non-sexual touches. That is so important at this stage. Even if you just get a side-by-side body hug instead of front to front.....that's a step in getting better.

A woman knows when she's not ready to ML, and when she's trying to get herself together after an EA.....she's dealing with a lot of internal things. As one writer said,when ML to
a woman, you start with her mind.

I think most LBH's want to ML b/c it is a type of assurance for him that she "does" love him and is willing to work at the R. Wanting her to commit to 100% in working on the MR is the H wanting assurance. There is nothing wrong with that. I believe it comes from being human. But I know how I would avoid any form of pressure. It seems very selfish when putting it into words,and maybe it was, IDK, I just know that "that" was all I could do (and be honest)at the time.

EAch of you have issues to work through separately....and some together. You're doing a good job. If things were not difficult at this stage.....then I would be very concerned.

Sbh.

After reading a number of your post, I am struck with a thought. I hope you dont take this the wrong way. But my therapist always tells me that many times in a marriage the person who feels like they are doing a lot of the work (in any regard) often takes on this idea of superiority. They begin to look down on the other spouse. You have to acknowledge and caution against it. This is part of the poisonous atmosphere and you are helping it. You aren't superior because you are working "harder." First, you don't know that. Second, we all have flaws that make us more or less equal to one another. Also we each contributed to where we are.
Talking about how you have "options" or that your therspist flirts with you also contributes to this. Personally, I dont care about options or other women flirting with me. I care about my M and workkng in me. I hope you dont take this the wrong way. Just something for all of us to think about and I think the DB process feeds this notion.

Harrier wonderful insight.



I was guilty of this, still am at times.
Especially in the role of the LBSer.

It is a hard habit to break, but it can be broken.

I have been humbled by this process. If you asked me 6 months ago who was to blame for the fall of our marriage, I would have said W, hands down. And many others would have agreed (including HER family).

Fast forward to today I see how much I hurt her. How cutting my words were when I would say;

"we got married too early"
"we were not meant to be together"
"I think we need to seperate"
"How can you feel that our relationship is right"
"we will be seperated in less then a year"

She was alone, and afraid and uncertain of her future. And she just wanted love from me. Just thinking of these things makes me tear up. I just didn't realize the pain I was causing. Sure, she was/is difficult and rarely lightened up.

I would tell her how good SHE had it, stay at home mom, nice house, great kids. From a logical standpoint it makes total sense. Why be upset?

But I was speaking/thinking like a man and I was not listening to her needs. I was problem solving which is not what she needed.

But I can't go back. All I can do is learn and be a better person. And a better husband.

So as far as feeling superior, I don't. Not in the least. In fact I see how my behavior in the past, had it been different could have made us stronger then steel. But I was consumed with ME and MY NEEDS.

I guess I want to rush this process so she will believe that I HAVE changed and then the questions in her mind will disappear. But that will take time and I am doing everything possible to SHOW her and not tell her...

So update on last night:
Went well. Very friendly when we were together early evening. She went out with friends and when she came home and we talked for about an hour (did a lot of chores when she was out). Great conversation, no R talk at all. I am getting to the point where I am saying to myself, 'why have R talk? would I have had R talk last year? NO. So just assume/act like all is fine with life.' Makes soooo much sense but hard to do when the crisis hits. We then read more of "Surrendering to Marriage", Held hands while falling asleep. Was nice...


We used to fight every day and I don't believe we have fought in over 2 months. Almost every interaction is positive. Not because SHE has changed but because validating and remaining calm works wonders. I have learned that anger and yelling is useless and NEVER gets you what you want.

One last thing about 180. I have learned that small things count more. Examples:

*Don't wait for W to ask to change a burnt out light bulb
*Iron W cloths while she is out (if she lets you)
*Make the kids their lunches for the following day so W does not have to scramble
*make the bed in the morning
*Leave a little TY note if she does something nice for you
*Start dinner before she gets home
*Warm up her car in the morning
*make her tea or coffee and place on the vanity while she is in the shower

180 is about what you do consistantly... These things will make her feel appreciated. But be consistant!

SBH.

I think you missed my point. of course, you don't want admit that you might feel superior. Heck, my IC spotted it without me telling him. I am going by what you say in your posts. This struck me "You see, I drove her away. Not because I didn't love her, but because she is sooo difficult to live with." that to me smacks of I'm better than she is. Also you posting about about how things aren/t moving fast enough, you are the only one filling the love bucket, you have options out there, you think your IC is flirting with you, you think that she is playing a dangerous game because you can't wait forver and could become indifferent. I don't know, it just hit me. Much they way the things my IC said to me. This isn't an attacked on you, but a way for you to really get at the heart of things. You can't progress with this line of thinking as fast as you want. You just can't.

harrier,

I say all these things here on the board but I don't say them at home. At home I am dedicated to my M and my W. They are some of my feelings that I will never share with W.

I do believe most of them without feeling superior...

case in point:
*I AM the only person filling a love bucket
*She IS difficult to live with and rigid
*Everyone has options so I'm just stating a fact
*I DO believe WAS play a dangerous game (and many have regrets)
*I DO believe that after being hurt long enough you become cold/indifferent

Now the only thing I'm not sure of is the flirting...

Now having said all that, these things are never in my head at home. I vent here because it helps me process my thoughts. At home all I want to do is shower my wife with love, affaction, gifts, and security.


I don't feel attacked at all. Your insight is very helpful and you have great points. Please keep it coming... it keeps me grounded.

The superior thing isn't really about you telling W anything. It's more about thoughts that you have and it might explain some of the anger you have towards your wife. And I've seen some anger in your posts.
I'm sure a lot of DBers (I include myself) have had this thought- "Why am I doing all the work and he/she is doing nothing, yet he/she is the one that caused this?" - that comes from superior thinking. Like I'm mad because SO isn't doing what I am doing and what they are doing is not enough. Subconsciously, that translates to I'm better because I'm working on me and willing to work on the M while My SO isn't. & I deserve someone better because I'm a better person, etc.

Ultimately, you know how you actually feel, not some guy on a message board. It was hard for me to hear, but ultimately I agreed with my IC on this. It was a huge step for me and help me get past some of my anger towards my wife. My W and I are just different people - no more no less. I suspect the same is true with you.

Wow! I would say that deserves a gold star!

You are learning. I can see it as I read your posts on other threads. You are going to make it, as long as your are willing to take a hard look within and are working to change that. Hard for me to do b/c it's easier for me to point my finger at my H. I think that is probably something I will have to watch from now on.

Thanks Sandi,
I still question if I am doing the right things from an affection standpoint. And I am learning EVERY DAY!!! And I see my part in driving her to look at other options. I was a fool. I look at all I took for granted... Just think about it:

*6 months ago I could tell my W lets take a bath and have champagne together in the tub... Today, NOPE!

*6 months ago I could comment on how beautiful my W was (other then her face)... Today, NOPE!

*6 months ago I could come home and kiss my wife anywhere I wanted to... Today, NOPE!

*6 months ago I could ask my W to ML... Today, NOPE!

*6 months ago I could plan an overnight stay in a beautiful hotel with her... Today, NOPE!

*6 months ago I could enjoy ice cream or breakfast in bed, naked... Today, NOPE!

6 months ago I could tell my W "I love you" and expect to hear it back... Today, NOPE!

Once I get her back I will appreciate every privilage we share. I am convinced that when a woman gives herself to you, it is a gift!!!


Back to some concerns:
I still initiate almost all affection. So I need advice...

Last night we went to bed spooning again. Again she backed into me and did not resist at all. I THINK she likes it. But how do I know if she is just faking it or not.

The reason I think she is NOT faking is:

*She could just as easily move to the edge of the bed
*She could say shes hot and ask me to give her a little space
*She could go to bed much earlier (we have always gone to bed at the same time)
*She could simple tell me that shes not ready

Am I over thinking this?

Do I stay the course?

Do I need to make her miss me more?


I HATE this game!

Sandi, what did your H do when YOU started to come around? Did he move too fast or was it just the right pace? My W never moved out and she stopped her EA within 30 days of my setting a boundary.


I DO believe I am handling most of this correctly and am staying true to the DB/DR strategy.

I just want to be sure that I am pacing correctly.

One last question about tonight. I am going out with the guys (probably till about 3am) so we will not be going to bed together. I would ALWAYS come home and spoon her in the past. Should I do the same tonight?