I think Cathy is right. I believe it cuz I see a lot of the same fear in myself. I have come to realize that if I had been willing to let go years ago she probably would have recognized SELF CONFIDENCE in me and would have been a lot more interested in me.
I know how this bs sucks to high heaven, believe me I'm in the middle of a truckload of manure myself. You have to seek your own peace, without her. Give her up and she may come back to you. We certainly can't force our wives to love them. Some women jsut seem to be repelled by romance and loving sweet guys. I'll bet that the fireman is a hunky bastard with a lot of confidence and a dash of bad boy attitude with a side of "I'm intriguingly mysterious but with a sensitive touch". She's gone for the bait. It's totally textbook. Get a little arrogant, get pissed--not to get revenge or any crap like that. Be nice, gentlemanly but get so pissed inside that you say to yourself "I don't give a flying fck anymore, if she doesn't want me then I'm not going to kiss her hot little asss anymore". Look at other women, they are out there, this will give you some confidence to be yourself. If she wants to be with you she will come back. You've got the message across that you dig her--now let her decide.
Frankly, I'd tell her to take the firedude and move on. But then again, I'm pissed these days.
Campfire? I feel like a fcking arsonist right now! You should see the wild eyed looks and gas tank strapped to my back with duct tape! Damn! Maybe I could even learn how to be one of those arrogant jerks at the bars that all of the women are googoo eyed over. I don't get it.
I've finally got the insurance all wrinkled out and have been calling therapists. Ironically, I keep getting answering services, machines and messages. But hey, I've got my Paxil and tequila coctails!
You know, there is part of me that wants to tell the wife to go with Mr. Hunky Fireman, and then watch from the sidelines while the relationship self-destructs, as it surely would. That would be playing games with my daughters' lives, and I just can't do it. Tempting though, verrry tempting!
Wifey and I went to the couples counselor this afternoon. I was in an *I don't give a f#@k* mood, and walked right into the office without even saying hello. We just got right down to business, and I went over our past up until my initial affair 5 years ago, and the subsequent birth of our daughter #2. We spent a lot of time on that, why I did what I did, why her distrust is so deep, whether or not the woman was a potential homewrecker, etc. We contrasted my feelings of rejection and severe judgment from her for that deed with her feelings of fear, insecurity, and distrust. I told the counselor that there was more to the story, then launched into the story of Mr. Fireman. I came out with both barrels blazing. Let's say I was pissed. She has been trying to say that it was a one-off fling, no big deal, at least compared with my multitude of sins, but I reminded her, in front of the counselor, that she brought a man she barely knew into my home, put his naked butt on my couch, and had sex with him with my 3-y.o. daughter upstairs sleeping. He could have been a homicidal maniac and hurt both my daighter and my wife. I graphically showed them why her *mistake* was wrong on many levels; I wouldn't let her get off easily. The counselor sensed my anger.
We ended the session going over her *need for space*, and he told me to give her space in a loving fashion, not a mean-spirited, *okay b**ch, take all the time you want* fashion. Nevertheless, I continued my angry stance after the meeting, and barely said goodbye to her as we left.
I'm really very comfortable right now doing a 180 of sorts. I am taking the advice here to heart. I'm taking my younger girl to Disneyland tomorrow, along with a family we know well, but without the wife. I dropped my daughter off tonight at the house, kissed her, and told her that I had fun with her tonight at Daddy's house (the pimp pad) giving her a candlelight dinner, and that I'd see her tomorrow for Disneyland. I looked at my wife, standing at the doorway, and she had tears in her eyes. I just walked away. She needs her space, remember?
Quote: I'm really very comfortable right now doing a 180 of sorts. I am taking the advice here to heart.
HUH? I don't remember anyone here telling you to do the things you are doing?
Quote: We ended the session going over her *need for space*, and he told me to give her space in a loving fashion, not a mean-spirited, *okay b**ch, take all the time you want* fashion. Nevertheless, I continued my angry stance after the meeting, and barely said goodbye to her as we left.
This is exactly what all of us have been telling you to do.
Quote: We just got right down to business, and I went over our past up until my initial affair 5 years ago,
Initial? The word "initial" indicates there was more than one affair. Was there? How many times have you hurt your wife the way you are hurting right now? Why, with this new "unique perspective" you have aren't you able to have some empathy for this woman? You are walking in her shoes right now aren't you Brian and it isn't fun. This is the way I see it, you are either disrespecting your wife by screwing around on her and then smothering her to get forgiveness or you are becoming defensive and treating her dismissively. Maybe if you could conjure up a small amount of empathy for someone you hurt in the past you might could find some middle ground and finally start doing the right thing. Cathy~
Civil is a much better attitude to have than pissed. Pissed will get you nowhere and may alienate her even more. The girls will pick up on the pissed thing, too, and perhaps hear from their mom about the attitude. Going Dark has nothing to do with acting pissy. You are giving her additional ammunition with this type of attitude, and I don't think that you want that at all.
Then I am clearly missing the boat. Explain the Going Dark for me. I agree with Cathy that I should be showing her empathy, and I actually have! When her affair came to light 2 weeks ago, I was very empathetic. I told her she is human, and that I can forgive what she did. When I said the Initial Affair, I meant that there were two affairs: mine and hers. I didn't want the session to end without getting into what she did most recently.
I have tried empathy, and now she wants space. It's right around the holidays, and I still don't really know what she wants from me, other than space. I'm inclined to give it to her. There's a section in the book D.B. that suggests doing a 180, basically going on about my life as if without getting involved in her *stuff*. I'm operating ion a vacuum here, folks. In the absence of anything from her, I'm going to make decisions that benefit my happiness, and that of my daughters. How does one Go Dark, yet keep a dialogue going with a spouse that Wants Space?
Can you understand my confusion here? I have a life to live.
I picked up my younger daughter this morning to take her to Disneyland. We're about on our way. I was civil to the wife, but didn't hang out either. I got the daughter, got her stuff, and told the wife to have a nice day, and that I'd drop her off tonight. That's it. Civil, yet I got us out of there quickly so she could have her space. I'm not acting pissy today, just very direct.
Went to Disneyland yesterday, and ended up just taking my daughter to my place to sleep, for her first time. I went to drop her off this morning at the house, and my wife gave me an indifferent look, and asked if we had a good time at the them park. I said that we did, and that I wished she had been with us. She looked at me with disgust, and said the did not believe me for a second.
She thinks that I want nothing to do with her. she was VERY cold to me at the house today. I requested that we talk later today, and she agreed to that. I told her that we are two people who love each other, but whose marriage is going through a painful metamorphosis. I also said that we used to be best friends, and can be that way again, if we can start respecting each other. She said that she believes what she believes, but I mentioned that whatever I say later today will be honest.
We need to STOP being so hurtful to each other. It's a game of one-upsmanship between us, and it has to stop. I'm trying to be loving, and will keep being loving today. That's the man she wanted all along, and that's the man I'm going to be this afternoon, and from here forward. I'm sure that she still wants her space, but we do need to keep a dialogue going. I'm putting my best foot forward. I just hope she doesn't step on it.
Don't want you to think that I have abandoned you, but has been a very tough weekend for me.
I really don't have an answer for you right now. Bear with me and I'll see if I have a spark of intelligence in the morning. I'm past the point of being able to offer a good point of view right now.
