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Yup,
he hit that one out of the park!

Coach is proof there isn't always another person involved.





You need to do a 540. This is an important time for you to understand yourself, the hurt you cause several years ago, the person you were then, are now, and the person you'll be in the future. Not the person you want to be but the person who you will really develop into because of your experiences. Know Yourself that is what you need to do. The rest is up to your wife. You cheated her. She bottle up emotions and pain and couldn't say I Love You for years. That is a sucky existence. I don't believe that you can say you didn't expect this: that a day would come when she would want to "explore" like you when you were "exploring."

Welcome to the world of open marriages. or divorce. Its one thing to screw your old girlfriend. Its an entirely different feeling to be the wife who got robbed of the reason she became a wife. Everything changed that moment. You are just coming to terms with your reality now. Hopefully someone will come along and tell you to start reading about healthy boundaries. That and a lot of the references within will help you a lot in the future.

Thanks for the 2x4. Today I found out that she has been with the OM, I know now what she felt like and it sucks. I have not spoken to her in a week, we have had some tm over money and the kids. I had lunch today with my 17 year old daughter, I asked for her and her sisters to help me be a better man, I told her about the therapist that I am going to help me be a person to myself. I need to interact with them more. I heard from my SIL today and she told me that she thinks that my 15 and 13 year old are disgusted with their mother over the OM. She takes them on these Mid Evil festivals and the OM is there. I am thinking about joining the YMCA and finally get some exercise. Everyone one of my WAW's family I feel is behind me. Whatever is happening to the woman I married I hope does not last long. The advice that see the veterans on this site is awesome. I tried to start the 180's last week, but backslided. I understand that this is normal and happens. I will start with the therapist on the 28th and will see if she has any ideas on how to help me dig into my problems. I have gotten one thing from this site and that is to be Patient, Patient, Patient. I will take baby steps toward WAW, I will love my girls and GAL. I will keep you posted.

Your WAW has got some stuff to work out....and it will take time. The best thing for you to do right now is leave her alone and focus on you and the kids. Spend your time in making a new man out of yourself. What were you like when she fell in love with you? Get in shape, eat a healthy diet (b/c that affects your emotions/thought pattern)start working on your grooming and wardrobe. Look good when you are home. Even if you are bearfoot with jeans & T-shirt....make sure you are shaved and have hair looking hot and you smell good enought to make a girl swoon.

Now a word about your kids. You are the first man that ever entered the heart of your daughters. Do you realize how important that is? It will be the primary basis of their choice in a H. They need their dad to be a strong leader.I would suggest that you do not ask them to help you be a better man. They do not know how to do that. It is not their responsiblity. It is yours.

I suggest that you ask your children what their emotions needs are. I can tell you this much, they need your personal time. I understand your working and how that is what you saw as being a good providers, father, etc. That is what a father should do. But your children need you to be with them, especially now. If you don't know what to talk about, just "be" there with them. Ask them what they would like to do and if they say they don't know.....get them out of the house and make a day of doing something special.

Your M does not have to end in D. Much of this will depend upon you. While she's trying to escape in her fantasy world with OM, you are changing into a wonderful person. When the A falls falt, she will see you and your changes.

Here's a few hints that might help you along the way:

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

Hi OneLessWife

I have just read your post and the thread that follows it.

First, I see that there is a mixture of advice, some of which is consistent with DB philosophy, some perhaps not. If you really want good legal advice, go to a family law attorney. If you want to maximize the chance of saving your marriage, however, keep reading DR and getting support and input from this site.

One of the patterns I see in many of the responsive posts is to play to your anger or pride and have you firmly show your partner that this infidelity will not be tolerated - by taking firm and immediate action. I would encourage you - because you are stating your goal is to save your marriage - to avoid rash actions of any kind that are based on emotional impulse, even though the temptation can be very strong.

I believe you are on the right track. I sense there are two critical things for you to work on at this point. The first is not to pursue. It sounds like you are already working on this. Keep this up and don't get discouraged. Since this is such a difficult thing to do, you can't expect immediate perfection. Keep trying, and credit yourself with success for every minute or instance you are able to do this. The more you do it the the more confident you will feel as long as you don't berate yourself when you "slip"!

Secondly, absolutely, positively do not get into the same old arguments you've had in the past! If you succeed in disengaging from pursuit, you will have extra time to sharpen some of your other DB skills so that you can more successfully approach such topics - when the time is right! For now, it's not.

If you can really make progress on just these two things for now, I believe you are doing the best things you can do at this point in time. Also, bravo to you for seeing this as an opportunity to make yourself a better man. I am confident you will.

Believing in you,

onyourside2

Sandi, thanks for that advice. I spent several hours today at the house with four of the five girls. I wanted them to know that I love them and that I am trying to be a better person for myself. I told them if I accomplish this than everything else might just fall into place. My W and I have not seen each other in about a week. We have tm each other about the girls and money. Right now I get the feeling that after the last fight last week that she does not want to see me. I think that's ok with me.
I think that I have come to a place inside of me that is at peace with this sitch I am in. I have read so much on here and really want everyone to know that there are a lot of good people in the world. I mean someone who would be on this site for years giving advice is awesome to say the least.
I am going to remain this way I hope with no backsliding. I have my first appt. with my IC next week and I am looking forward for some help. There are so many avenue to help oneself be better.
I can see my wife's troubles about the way I have acted over the years. Her being to tired to do anything and me being resentful. Ours lives became just mundane, work,work, dance class, part time work being tired and all that goes with that. In reading some of these forums the WAW syndrome is exactly what I have going on here. She did tell me once that she let me back in her bed after my A was discovered. Now all of a sudden she did not. I was telling my SIL yesterday that just about any man could have paid attention to her and said nice things and he would be the OM.
I find myself now not thinking about the OM, I mean he is only going on what she tells him anyway. I feel no malice towards him. (is that wrong). He is fully divorced so there is nothing to bust there. I have told all of my wife's family about the A. Although my W justifies the A because we are in fact separated.
When I told my wife about the A I had, I told her to go out and get me back. Not wanting her to really do it. We talked several weeks ago about being disconnected, I told her now that the girls are much older this is our time.

I had a bad day yesterday. I have been dark for about a week. I have answered a few tm's about the kids. I tm my W to ask if I could stop by and she tm and said yes. I came in the house and she was right there. I smiled and said hi. My children gathered and we all went and sat down. I felt uncomfortable being in the same room with her. Anyway I chatted with my kids and my W made small talk.
Here's where it gets bad for me. I have been picking my oldest up for four years while she is at college. About a month ago me and the W got into an argument. Basically I told her that she and the OM should go. Well it came back to hit me in the face. I brought it up about going and she said nevermind I am going. I really did not say anything but she could tell I was upset.
Now for the second thing. My W's cell phone is up in January. I told her a while ago about all the expenses she would have if we get divorced. She said that she was going to get her cell account. Well yesterday she brought it up and I fell to pieces on the inside. I waited a few minutes and told them I have to get back to work.

Now I have some questions that I need advice on.
1.I have not made any attempt to be the first one who calls. She only does when its about money or the kids.IS this going to be a long process to where she calls me and asks how am I doing.

2) The WAW syndrome has me puzzled. I understand that she is in a fog. IS there anyone that she would listen to, I mean someone that could tell her she is tearing up the family. Is this something that we wall have to ride out. The reason why I ask is that she all she ever wanted was to be a mother. Now she is putting her children on the back burner so to speak for the OM. Does she not care that she is hurting them. Is she not showing them a bad example of what not to do. She always had high morals and values and wanted to pass them on to the children. Now it seems like she does not care. Is she truly confused.
3)If and when we can reconcile who has the more power her or me. She told me that she really did not forgive me for my A. (which I do not believe for a minute, I think it was just thrown in there to make her case look good). Now that she has an OM, don't I have trust issues with her now. I would need full disclosure. She has told me several times that she knows that I truly lover her now. So who rules what. If she calls and say's I screwed up and wants to reconcile, what do I do.
4)Why is it in her mind that she is not having an affair, because we are separated. Now I know why she was pushing for the separation back in May. It was to see if our marriage needed a time out, it was so she could start up with the OM.
5) Is my W really at this point willing to give up everything and put all of us in a devastating place. As I stated in my initial post that we still have three kids left to go to college. Would she really do this? Who can through to her that this will happen. She tells me that I am Emotionaly Blackmailing her when I say these things. I stopped. My BIL and SIL have both told her to wake up and get back to reality.
6) So one of the rules sandi gave me says dont believe anything right now that comes out of her mouth and only half of what you see.
Anyway today is another day and I am sorry for the long post.

I've got to get some sleep, so I'll talk to you later. Don't do anything rash.

I am loosing my mind today. I woke up last night after one hell of a bad dream. (you can just about guess of what my dream was about). Anyway my W has D17 text me and tell me that they bought some clothes at the mall. I asked about how much they spent. D17 told me that they did not keep track. I went and logged on and checked the bank. I was furious at the amount she spent. Now mind you she wanted this separation and there are costs associated for me not living there. Si I called her right up and asked what are you doing, I don't get paid till next week and that money was for food etc. All she said was I am sorry, and it was not a sincere sorry. I am beginning to detach a bit but reading these posts should I have a bright light hit me when I am completely detached. I mean I am taking the three youngest daughters out to dinner and a movie on Saturday. I think that I'm should just pull up in the driveway and beep the horn. I do not know if W is even going to be there, she has been sick that last couple of days. We are going on six months of her wanted this separation and about four months less a week that I have been out of the house. Also in reading others on this site and learning things about myself and my W. Are all the WAS indifferent to their spouses. I mean what is covering their emotions, she never acted like this before, it is like I do not exist or that she never had feelings for me. All she can bring up is 22 years of bad stuff in our marriage. All of you are helping me when I read what you tell others, maybe my thread is not as appealing as others because I don't seem to get the responses others do. So here is what I am going to do. I am seeing a C to help me get this resentment out or at least manage it better, to get some confidence back, I am going to start to exercise and go to the tanning booth. I am also going to get some new clothes. I am in a place right now this minute that I do not want to see my W for a while. We can text if needed. I read all of Futureunknown's thread last night, I am willing to wait it out and see what happens, listening to what he endured in pain and suffering, I wish I could shake his hand. I know this is not an exact science but all of the DB tactics seem to work well if implemented correctly just might work. I think the hard part is standing up to the WAS when and if they decide they want back in. The thread I read last night, when the wife just about begged to come back, he held his ground because he wanted full disclosure and transparancy she could not give him what he wanted and he held to his principles. I guess you have to be fully detached for that to happen. In my sitch my W has not said anything about a D or writing up a legal separation. She has however researched and found that we have to be separated for one year if we have children. I don't know what that is all about. Sorry I am rambling on but I have been addicted to this site after I read DR. Oh and by the way I here people telling the Spouse of a WAS not to let them read the book. Why is that. Is it because the WAW will know what you are attempting to do. I mean I did try to get my W to read DR and a book on forgiving Infidelity and she forcefully said no. Also the book DB, should I read that, I didn't know that was the first book, is not DR telling the steps to take. Anyway I will post after the dinner and movies with the girls. It should a blast. Until I post again.

Scott