I have to say, it is very confusing to those of us going through this right now to decide which way to handle the exposure.
I see the point to exposing to everyone because it makes the WS uncomfortable in all settings. I also see the point of NOT telling everyone, because some people just don't care and may choose to look at you as the vindictive one, thereby undermining any support you might have received from them.
In my case, both families know. Several close friends know. I called the OWH to let him know (although I don't know what he did with the info). Most fringe friends only know we are separated but do not know about the A. I am slowly learning that I have very little support in trying to save my marriage. Family and friends are either saying nothing or just telling me to pull the plug. His family and friends are supporting him, by letting him stay at their houses or pretending that nothing is wrong. That is hurting almost as much as my husband leaving. But I still feel that my family is worth fighting for!! It will be MY choice whether to divorce or not and I'm not ready to make that choice yet. Not until I've exhausted every possibility of reconciliation. And not until I've detached enough from him in order to look at this clearly.
I visited my L today. His recommendation is to go the dissolution route since we have kids involved. He certainly supports divorce, but thought dissolution would be easier. It is also faster - about 3 months. That too fast for me. I don't even know what I want to do right now.
As far as a separation agreement, there is really nothing I can do legally. My H and I can sit down and make a list of all the things he's responsible for and I'm responsible for, but it doesn't really mean anything. We are still married, for all intents and purposes. The only thing that has changed is his address.
In any case, I really feel like I'm going to get the short end of the stick here. I have a disabled child who will most likely live with me for the rest of my life. Spousal support will end after 5 1/2 years and child support ends for him at age 19. What about years 19 - 70 (God willing)?
What REALLY sucks is that I still want to be friends with my H. Even if we are not married, I don't want to hate him. I hate what he has done, to me, to the family. I still have a long way to go in the DB process (only about 1/3 of the way through the book). But right now, I don't see any other outcome to this other than D. Right now, I want to get to a place where we can end it amicably - is there such a thing as divorce counseling. As much as I want my family to stay together, I have to accept the reality. Today I am lost...
There is no need for everyone you know to know all of the details of your marriage and your problems.
I beg to differ on this point... And infidelity experts concurr... leaving an affair alone allows it to escalate more often than not.
BND, this is not the place to "debate" this topic. While sometimes I agree exposure can hurt the goal, this is certainly NOT the way to get the point across. This is down right rude and hurtful.
If you want to "debate" the topic, I would welcome it on your own thread as Allen has already suggested.
The principle is about ensuring that the truth and facts are revealed.
In most cases during infidelity the wayward spouse will spin a line of stories about why they have movedo out, why the marriage isn't working, and why they have filed divorce etc...
They will either lie to everyone that the OW or OM is "just a friend" or they will lie about the marriage being "a mistake" and that they are "moving on"
At the same time in secret they are conducting a sexual affair, or they are cake-eating and leading their LBS on in private...
In some cases the WS is even arrogant enough to lie to their family that the LBS APPROVES of the affair and that they are both "moving on" when the LBS in fact does NOT approve and is NOT "moving on" and very much wants the marriage saved.
The purpose of exposure is to ensure that the TRUTH and the FACTS are readily available to everyone and that the addicted WS is NOT spinning lies and getting away with it.
The exposure on your end should make the following points known :
a. Infidelity is hurtful and you feel devastated b. You want to save your marriage c. OW is an interloper and obstacle to the marriage being saved d. Invite them to refuse to participate in WH's affair by refusing to meet or socialize with either of them until he ends his affair
If you stand by these points, then make them KNOWN to your social circle and RE-EXPOSE any lies your WH is spinning about to people...
This is not to be "vendictive" or "mean"... if anything it is an expression of how much you love your spouse to speak up in public like this and to protect your marriage, your home, and everything you have worked for
BND, this is not the place to "debate" this topic. While sometimes I agree exposure can hurt the goal, this is certainly NOT the way to get the point across. This is down right rude and hurtful.
If you want to "debate" the topic, I would welcome it on your own thread as Allen has already suggested.
Give Penny's argument here a read... She's a family therapist who specializes in infidelity cases
Love As An Excuse For Infidelity Penny R. Tupy 2003
So often in my work with spouses whose mates are in the midst of an affair I hear the anguished fear that because he or she claims to be, "in love" with the affair partner, it must mean that the marriage is over and the cheating lovers are meant to be together. Soulmates - because they now feel the intense passion of a fantasy relationship.
But of course they are, "in love." That's what an affair is. It's what the addiction is. It's an emotional response (without rationality, commitment or long term thinking) that causes us to do things that are not in our best interests and that hurt other people and destroy what we have worked hard to build in our lives - things like homes and families.
The idea that love should be the deciding factor is any of this is completely erroneous. As is the idea that love is some magical chemistry between two people. It's neither of those things. Romantic love really is nothing more than a mathematical equation. Spend enough time with someone meeting intimate needs of conversation, affection, admiration, and play time - and you will fall in love with that person. Assuming of course that they are not doing things you find offensive or objectionable at the same time.
The interesting thing about new infatuation/love is that we are blinded by the offensive or objectionable things at first. I think the pleasure of having needs met by someone new captures our attention to the point that we block out the less desirable traits. But like any addiction, what worked at first to create a high soon becomes not enough - we want more. When that happens in romantic relationships the irritating things seem to grow in proportion as the pleasure from getting needs met slackens. Unless real change takes place at this time - unless the real work of building a relationship kicks in - romantic love will wane.
This is when the instinct to demand more, to be rude or even to lose our tempers takes over. This is when the internal shift from, "You are so wonderful, what can I do for you," to "You aren't doing enough for me and I'm not willing to do anything for you - you jerk," occurs. This is where real marriage happens, when we move from - feeling like it- to making the commitment to doing what it takes to craft a truly connected and compatible relationship. This is where real love is grown.
For those, who have never honored commitment when the going got tough this is where they begin to bail. So, yes, I am sure that affair partners are in love. Does that mean it's the right place for them or that they have met 'the one'? Of course not. It means that they are in the habit of going for the feeling rather than committing to doing the work of making a truly successful relationship. Unless something greatly changes for these men and women, they will do the same again, and again. They will not find lasting happiness until they get it that marriage is more than feeling. Being in love is important, but staying there is what separates the men from the boys.
Be an advocate for marriage. When you hear of infidelity, take a stand. Refuse to condone affairs and "friendships" that threaten the integrity of the marriage bond. Educate your friends and families on the seriousness of becoming involved outside the marriage. Love is not an excuse for betrayal and abandonment. Love based on that foundation is like a house built on sand.
I'm going to get caught up on your sitch but wanted to jump in with this...you don't have to do anything, yet. Take your time. Get your emotions in check first. Then, the decisions will be easier to make.
Also, see another L. Several others have been told they can't have a separation agreement by one L only to find out that they actually can when they interview another one. Think of it as a job interview. The L is going to work for YOU.
The principle is about ensuring that the truth and facts are revealed.
In most cases during infidelity the wayward spouse will spin a line of stories about why they have movedo out, why the marriage isn't working, and why they have filed divorce etc...
They will either lie to everyone that the OW or OM is "just a friend" or they will lie about the marriage being "a mistake" and that they are "moving on"
At the same time in secret they are conducting a sexual affair, or they are cake-eating and leading their LBS on in private...
In some cases the WS is even arrogant enough to lie to their family that the LBS APPROVES of the affair and that they are both "moving on" when the LBS in fact does NOT approve and is NOT "moving on" and very much wants the marriage saved.
The purpose of exposure is to ensure that the TRUTH and the FACTS are readily available to everyone and that the addicted WS is NOT spinning lies and getting away with it.
The exposure on your end should make the following points known :
a. Infidelity is hurtful and you feel devastated b. You want to save your marriage c. OW is an interloper and obstacle to the marriage being saved d. Invite them to refuse to participate in WH's affair by refusing to meet or socialize with either of them until he ends his affair
If you stand by these points, then make them KNOWN to your social circle and RE-EXPOSE any lies your WH is spinning about to people...
This is not to be "vendictive" or "mean"... if anything it is an expression of how much you love your spouse to speak up in public like this and to protect your marriage, your home, and everything you have worked for
And today's "4 Whistles Award" goes to ....
I'm not an expert. Don't even play one on TV (altho I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once). But I have spent 6+ years studying literally thousands of affairs, and have worked directly counseling people on probably over 300. I've read all of the books by the best experts on infidelity (Harley, Glass, Spring, Tupy, and others), and I will say that everything that Allen has posted above IS accurate, based on my experience, observation and study.
Affairs follow a fairly simple, predictable (but destructive) arc. Study, and learn the basic "scripts," and you will be 75% of the way home. Knowledge is power, and as the Good Book says, "There is wisdom in many counselors."
Hey guys- I love Penny Tupy! She explains things so well. I think I read a passage somewhere about how a family is there to support you during the good and bad - births, marriages, deaths, illness. They should also be there during infidelity and not turn a blind eye. Does anyone know where I can find that?
lovehurts - I thought I saw in your thread a letter you drafted to friends and family inviting them to help save your marriage. I can't find it now. Can you post here or PM me? I'd like to do something similar.
This is a big weekend for me as far as GAL. H is picking up the kids for the weekend tonight and I'm getting a mani and going to dinner with friends. Tomorrow I have cardio-kickboxing and S soccer game and then out to watch college football and a party for my 40th!
My head has been spinning with all this DB stuff and stress and work and depression. I'm taking the weekend off!
OK, so I'm starting to see a pattern here. H texts me every day. Stupid, insignificant things - ex. yesterday - it's his weekend with the kids. He texts "plans changed. Staying with parents tomorrow night in case you missed them and wanted to get in touch". Then today (when he knows I'm out with friends) - "S wants to play in the band." OK - I don't even have a response to either of those things. I appreciate the info, I guess, but I have no response. These things are irrelevent in the grand scheme. I simply do not respond. I don't mean to be rude, but I just have nothing to say. Should I be looking at this differently?
4mb - forgive me - I'm really wordy. This was a follow up letter, however a lot of people to it for the first time. I'll send you the first one too, but it wasn't nearly as good.
I wanted to give you an update on our situation. For those of you that have reached out with kind words of support in emails and phone calls, thank you. For those of you that haven't responded, I realize this may be uncomfortable for you (it's uncomfortable for me). I would never ask anyone to do something outside of their comfort zone, but again, I am taking steps to save my marriage and family and am looking for support from those we both love and respect to help with this.
I have invited H to end his affair with OW but he has refused to do this. I have also invited OW to step away (twice now) and she has refused. I had to take steps to protect myself and my family from this very destructive dynamic. I've asked H to leave our home. While this may seem like a message of being finished with the marriage, it's far from it. I know that by allowing him to live here and continue the affair, is a signal of approval of the infidelity. It's not a message I chose to send. I also know that by having H here while having knowledge of the affair begins to deteriorate my love for him. I don't want that to happen. I have let H know that as soon as he ends his affair, he welcome back in to my heart and our home.
I see this very much as an addiction. If someone was an alcoholic, you would take any measures possible to help the one you love get better. You would ask your friends and family to not give that person a drink or greet them with a high five in a bar. All of you know this is an absolute pattern for H and by running away from the reality of this addiction, only serves to have history repeat itself over and over again. I know you understand what that may do to our sons.
I also want you to know that I take full accountability for my part in our relationship not being what it should up to this point. However, I don't take blame for an affair. I don't know any couple who doesn't go through ups and downs. I have made significant changes and attempts to bring our marriage back to what it should be, for my well being, H well being and our family's well being. But because of a third party was involved, it was very one sided.
I also want to stress again, I am in a very good place emotionally and psychologically. Please know this does not mean I'm okay with this. If you've seen me, you know I've had significant weight loss, I don't sleep more than a few hours at a time and I have bouts of crying. I think this is pretty normal, considering. However, I have a really strong support system of friends and family (and an amazing therapist). I'm not looking for an extended support system for me, I'm looking for a support system for H to do the right thing for his family. You know he has isolated himself from nearly everyone in his life. He needs people who love him and don't want to see him go down this destructive path yet again. I'd be more than happy to talk to any of you about the situation (maybe you just want to call to check if I haven't gone off the deep end - because this is so odd) I don't necessarily want to extend my network because by perseverating on this only serves to not help me heal and puts me in a position of having the love deteriorate. But that's not to say I won't talk to you about this to help you understand if you would like. Just know, I'm reaching out to you for H and our family.
Please understand, that I understand that this is incredibly unconventional, even counterintuitive. So many people have said, "move on" "kick him to the curb" etc. The way I see it, if your child makes mistakes, do you move on or kick them to the curb? No, it's unconditional love. You may have to take a tough love approach, but you love them and help them through it. My love for H is unconditional.
Thank you for your continued support of our marriage and family.
Me:38 H: 45 OW:34 S:4 Bonus S: 12 and 16 2nd M for both Together 12 yrs M: 6 EA suspected: 5/10 confirmed: 7/2/10 Separated: 8/12/10
