My parents are staying this weekend, so a bit more stress than ever, but also some good times. W saw me reading "Codependent No More" and asked if I thought we were CD. I told her I saw a lot of my behaviour described by it. I'm having a lot of fun with my folks, and doing things for myself. She's seeing me do a lot of things that I used to resist, and I'm sure that triggers her doubts. But, I'm not doing them for her, but for myself. For an old, stubborn, stick in the mud, I'm trying to just let go of the urge to control everything. And with our children, I'm just supporting W's decisions instead of trying to undercut her.
Of course, there's no signs of improvement in our R, but I can't control that. I can only try to control myself and how I respond to life.
Another thing I've rediscovered is how helpful it is to exercise. Not only am I losing weight and becoming healthier, it really helps take care of some of my stress. A good 1/2 hour walk with music in my ears helps clear so many worries away. Helps me focus on productive thoughts, not worry and fear.
One thing that I wanted to ask the forum regulars about was if I should be concerned about a potential EA (or even PA). I haven't seen any evidence that there is one, but I don't want to be a sucker. My wife isn't very tech savvy (I am) so it's not hard to try and gather evidence. Nothing in her email, browser history, cell history, or FB page would indicate anything inappropriate.
She does like to flirt (no big deal to me), and has a lot of guy friends at work who she sometimes brings leftovers for. Most of her coworkers are younger than she is, but again, no real warning signs.
She wants to get a tattoo, and she's also wanted to get a boob job for several years. In fact lately she's been making jokes about her boobs a lot. When she first mentioned wanting new boobs, I always told her that she was beautiful, and that she didn't really need them (we couldn't afford them anyway).
So now I think she's either trying to get a rise out of me or fishing for affirmation that they're still fine to me. I've just avoided commenting.
About a year ago, she started to be concerned about her appearance, more than normal. Got her hair colored, started wearing some makeup, and perfume. This was after she had gone to visit some of her H.S. friends on a "girls weekend." I liked the changes, but assumed the motivation was that she was just GAL.
Other than that, no odd conversations or actions on the phone, or weird behaviour.
If there is or has been an EA/PA, I can cope with that. I don't think it would hurt me anymore than the current sitch does, but I know that it would affect how I should approach DB'ing.
One thing that I wanted to ask the forum regulars about was if I should be concerned about a potential EA (or even PA). I haven't seen any evidence that there is one, but I don't want to be a sucker. My wife isn't very tech savvy (I am) so it's not hard to try and gather evidence. Nothing in her email, browser history, cell history, or FB page would indicate anything inappropriate.
She does like to flirt (no big deal to me), and has a lot of guy friends at work who she sometimes brings leftovers for. Most of her coworkers are younger than she is, but again, no real warning signs.
She wants to get a tattoo, and she's also wanted to get a boob job for several years. In fact lately she's been making jokes about her boobs a lot. When she first mentioned wanting new boobs, I always told her that she was beautiful, and that she didn't really need them (we couldn't afford them anyway).
So now I think she's either trying to get a rise out of me or fishing for affirmation that they're still fine to me. I've just avoided commenting.
About a year ago, she started to be concerned about her appearance, more than normal. Got her hair colored, started wearing some makeup, and perfume.This was after she had gone to visit some of her H.S. friends on a "girls weekend." I liked the changes, but assumed the motivation was that she was just GAL.
Other than that, no odd conversations or actions on the phone, or weird behaviour.
If there is or has been an EA/PA, I can cope with that. I don't think it would hurt me anymore than the current sitch does, but I know that it would affect how I should approach DB'ing.
These are all warning signs (red). Her flirting in front of you should bother you. Your wife won't be attracted to you unless she respects you.
Stay vigilant, ramp up your efforts on your issues and keep posting.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
The hardest part for me is that she's always thought of me as unaffectionate, and withdrawn. So my natural urge now is to be attentive and affectionate, despite the fact that this is going to make her feel pressured and pursued. But if I don't give her attention, she'll think that it's more of the same...
If she has the mindset of a WAW then she would not be receptive to your affection or attention. When the MR is healthy, then she responds. If she has withdrawn due to having her eye on other men (or man), then she will consider your affection/attention as smothering and will not want it.
There are many red flags that she is a WAW.....and that she could be a WAW in an A. The flirting is her wanting other men to affirm that she is still youthful and beautiful and she can still be sexually attractive to men who are not her H. In the past, it may have been enough for her H to assure her of those things, but presently....she has a need to know she is desirable to other men. It's kind of like a woman thinks her H is "expected" to feel that way about her, but if some other man thinks she's really sexy....then in truth..she must be.
You need to trust the DB techniques. What would have worked previously will not work right now b/c her mental/emotional state of mind has changed. Therefore, you must do what seems completely opposite. When your desire says to close in on her....in reality you need to pull back. A lot of your feelings is a result of waking up and realizing you are losing her.
You seem to speak almost casually about W being in an A, but I grant you that it will hurt a lot more if you discover she really is. You do need to gather intell and do not show your hand to her. You keep that private b/c if she's having an EA, she mess up and let her guard down somewhere....and you'll find it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
In case you need a few ideas for some 180's....here a little list to get you started:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off! 2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only! 4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject. 6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse. 7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence. 8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.) 9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better. 10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) 11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.) 12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice. 14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go. 15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative. 16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also. 17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. 19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that. 20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf. 21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight. 22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake. 23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel! 24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works! 25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. 26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). 27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake. 28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only. 29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. 31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them. 32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared. 33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return. 35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary. 36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Patient can be learned. In fact, the way we learn is through trials. Each time you apply it, and the next opportunity you'll find you are able to add a little more. That is what growth is all about. Love has a huge part of that, also.
Stay focused.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Reading The Five Love Languages has also been a real eye opener. It's pretty clear that our problems aren't unique; nor are the solutions. Neither of us has been getting the attention we've needed, nor have we known what we were missing, just that Something Was Missing.
