Puppy, i agree there are somethings that made me suspicious but i have checked as much as possible and found nothing. Although the signs are there a lot of the timelines don't make sense. When she goes out she usually tells me where she is going. Our friends have told me she is spending a lot of time at their house. Most of the time she comes home straight after work. So if she is having an A I dont know when she is fitting it in.
If we separate we have to sell the house as that is our biggest asset. Do you think i should give her the ultimatum. I am not asking her to pick up the M where we left off but just to either commit to trying to work things out or else to leave. I am just getting tired or the "living in limbo" bit.
Excuse the pun but sometimes it feels like you are a puppy in the pound waiting to get picked and i dont like that feeling. I am a confident adult and i will get on with my life with or without her. Having said that I want to try and save my M but not at the price of my sanity
Cant check cellphone as we have always had separate accounts. I did question her on it once right at the beginning and she unlocked the phone and handed it to me. Checked the GPS and found nothing. Keylogger showed nothing. Voice activated recorder, never tried that but interesting
I'd recommend velcro'ing a voice-activated recorder up under the front seat of her car, and checking it for a few days. If nothing turns up, then drop the intel.
She's confident of using her cellphone, as you don't get the bill and she's already shown it to you once. If she's going to get sloppy, that's where it'll be.
Hi Puppy, really appreciate the advice but not sure what you mean by
"I'm not big on ultimatums. It's better to convey YOUR boundaries."
I have already told her that if either of us dates anyone it's completely over. Is that what you mean here.
I find it interesting that i prev told her that when our M is in this state I have told her that neither of us has any obligation to explain our whereabouts except when it concerns the kids but she seems to insist on telling me where she is ( and mostly it is places it would be easy to verify but I dont ). Dont know if this is good or bad.
This DBing is so hard when you are in the same house. Sometimes i think it would be so much easier to just separate and get on with life. Then if she wants to come back she will and if not "Oh well".
I think what hurts us all is the uncertainty not the end result. It would be easier if she just told me she met someone else or that she wanted to get out of my life forever. I can deal with that.
This crap is sooow confusing but I am sure it is educational too. Some of you guys and girls should be getting honorary psychological degrees lol.
The best way I can explain the difference between boundaries and ultimatums is from my personal archives:
The best way I can answer that is that if you make it about HER, they will come across as "demands" and being "controlling."
If you make them about YOU, and what YOU need, then they are "boundaries of personal integrity."
Example:
"I forbid you to see OM" = CONTROLLING
"I can't live in an open marriage" = BOUNDARY
"You need to check in with me every day, and give me your cellphone bill!" = CONTROLLING
"In order to feel safe in our reconciliation, considering your recent affair, I need to know that you're no longer talking or texting him by having the cellphone bill come to me for awhile" = BOUNDARY
"You can't talk to me that way!" = CONTROLLING
"I like ME too much to allow myself to be spoken to so disrespectfully. Please come back when you've calmed down, and we can talk further." = BOUNDARY
Make sense?
It's also HOW you say it. It should come across as something you HATE to have to even ASK for, and that you'll COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND if she doesn't feel she can do it, but hey -- this is what I need right now. Let me know."
Had voice recorder for a couple of days and nothing has showed up yet. So i am trying to plan next moves on the assumption that there is no OM. But will leave in place for a week just to make sure.
She is definitely been more curious about my whereabouts etc since I started the LRT and for the first time suggested we get a movie in to watch and we had a pleasant evening. Also she is now starting conversations with me where before there was nothing. Sometimes I can see her catching herself and then turning cold again.
I wouldn't say she is coming around and I have no idea if she is having second thoughts or whether she is just trying to be "friends". I am just trying to run the LRT by the book.
My Dilemma now is I know I need to deal with the conflict between her and my S and there are lots of resources out there to help with it. How do I suggest some of this without linking it to our relationship. I am nervous that if I make some suggestions on how to proceed that she will see this as pursuing.
Last week she said she wanted to separate and get things moving and I encouraged her to do but then she backed off and came up with some suggestions on how to deal with their conflict. She mentioned we would talk later but never brought it up again. By me not bringing this up I feel like we lost momentum but I wanted her to initiate it.
Should i be initiated these conversations or when she says that we will talk later does that mean I should wait for her to initiate.
I am thinking about texting her and setting up a time later in the week to discuss. Is this a good idea ?
I would suggest letting her bring up the next R talk. I have wanted to iniate and I keep myself from doing it. I went out the other night until 2 AM and the W waited until I got home to talk about R. I let her talk, I listened, she still talked about D and I went along, didnt beg for her to reconsider.
My point is there was no plan for talk about R, I did something that got under the W's skin which I guess forced her feelings to talk about R. Every sitch seems similar but every person is different. Hope I made some sense.
This is what i found on here ( Can't find the original author but i think it was Sandi2 )and I re read it before every action I take in regards to my M in its current state. It really helps to reinforce the steps.
Hope this helps
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
