Hey Ellie, I just popped by to visit your thread and my head is spinning--I didn't expect what I found! From what I know about you and the wisdom and insight you have provided to me, I think most of us here know you mean well and did not mean to offend or put yourself up on the "soapbox".
Was thinking one of these days I need to go down to S.D. and meet you and we can go stalk OW at the gym!!! Heck, for all I know you may already belong to the gym that she works! Wouldn't that be a howl!
Thanks guys. I appreciate the support. I guess it is just so hard to stand by sometimes and watch somebody head down a road that you know will lead to the pain and suffering we have all been through, and not try to stand in the middle of the road and yell "Stop! Turn around! Head back!" But I guess it is really hard to see those things until the bomb is dropped on you. Other people more politic that I am are trying to help LDwife see things from her H's POV, I will leave it to them.
I guess that IS one of the keys to DBing - reaching that point where you can see things from your spouse's point of view. That's so hard to do when the bomb is dropped - didn't we all feel like self-righteous "victims" at the time? Wouldn't it have been SO easy to slip into bitterness, "my spouse cheated on me and I'm a victim" thinking? Don't we all know people who are stuck in that space 10, 20, 30 years after their divorce?
Successful DBers (and by that I don't just mean the ones that save their marriages - Soup's the most successful DBer I know ) seem to reach that point where they can take responsibility for their own role in what happened in their marriages, and where they can feel compassion for their spouses, and start to put themselves in their spouse's shoes. Don't you think so?
How was snowboarding? I am sorry you had to come home to a virtual mess here...Thinking of you and wishing you well. I didn't get swept out to sea kayaking was fun but exhausting. I think I will do it again. My H is coming around and checking in about every 4 days now. School starts for him today, I think he is teaching 8 classes this semester, so he will be one busy puppy. All the better to put things on the back burner, eh? Anyway, Happy Tuesday SG
Survival Goddess "The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any." -Alice Walker
Quote: I guess that IS one of the keys to DBing - reaching that point where you can see things from your spouse's point of view. That's so hard to do when the bomb is dropped - didn't we all feel like self-righteous "victims" at the time? Wouldn't it have been SO easy to slip into bitterness, "my spouse cheated on me and I'm a victim" thinking? Don't we all know people who are stuck in that space 10, 20, 30 years after their divorce?
Successful DBers (and by that I don't just mean the ones that save their marriages - Soup's the most successful DBer I know ) seem to reach that point where they can take responsibility for their own role in what happened in their marriages, and where they can feel compassion for their spouses, and start to put themselves in their spouse's shoes. Don't you think so?
So absolutely true... including the Soup part, though I'd add a few other names to that list, so that Soup will not blush so much...
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Actually, I didn't snowboard this time - I just took my S12 to compete in a contest. He was very frustrated and disappointed, as he boarded well in his trial runs, but choked in the competition. He can be very hard on himself - a lot like my H in that regard (I, on the other hand, probably cut myself a little TOO much slack! ). It was great fun to be on a "road trip" with him, though. He's very funny and great company. It's scary, though, to watch - it was a slopestyle event - going off big jumps and jumping up onto railings - and he weighs all of 70 lbs. soaking wet!
I get to snowboard in a couple of weeks, though - girls trip with my SIL from Seattle and her friends I am really looking forward to that.
Your kayaking adventure sounded great. I know that for my H, athletic companionship was a big need - one that I couldn't meet during several years of illness. Also, I never THOUGHT of myself as an athlete - even though I can do some things fairly well. That's one of the things I have tried to work on - trying new sports, giving myself credit (hey, I started snowboarding at age 46 - how cool is that?), and trying to take myself more seriously as an athlete (still feel silly even saying the word ).
Oh - forgot to mention - H and I were helping D13 clean and organize her room this weekend (it was a MESS! ). At one point she found a couple of old poems she wrote and gave them to us to read - one of them she wrote the day we found out about my H's affair. It was a really great poem about staying and working things out.
Also - a comment H made this weekend - after some thing came up that I commented on about how I felt about something during the "bomb" time. He said "It's like surviving a plane crash - who wants to go back and talk about it?" I guess that's really true of returned spouses - they just want to put the "plane crash" behind them and get on with their lives
Quote: Ellie's remarks, taken in context, expressed concern about you... She was not abusive; she just disagrees with your pov. Ellie is very well aware of what rape is and does not need anyone to update her on it. And she did manage to save her marriage and rebuild her life. I cannot accept abusive language. Even from someone who has very obviously been sorely wounded by others in the past and present. *Optimist
Quote: To subject her to this criticism, when she is trying to offer help is unacceptable. *Dotto
I'm sorry ladies, but I have every right to come here and defend myself! Ellie's choice of words and remarks are in a context that can't be taken any other way than judgemental, ignorant and rude by the person they are directed to, or should I say ABOUT. If you have something to say ABOUT me, please be decent enough to address me - don't hide in a corner and gossip for God's sake. How incredibly rude and immature.
Obviously, Ellie does need to be updated on what rape is. Oh and my favorite: because SHE managed to save her marriage and rebuild her life... what? She's what? Entitled to accuse me of not being truthful; second guessing my statements; label me a screwed up victim? Get a grip!
Quote: ...it is just so hard to watch somebody head down a road that you know will lead to pain and suffering. ...didn't we all feel like self-righteous "victims" at the time? Wouldn't it have been SO easy to slip into bitterness, "my spouse cheated on me and I'm a victim" thinking? Successful DBers seem to reach that point where they can take responsibility for their own role in what happened in their marriages, and where they can feel compassion for their spouses, and start to put themselves in their spouse's shoes. *Ellie
Thank you SO much for caring Ellie. Give me a break. You KNOW that your words were ignorant to my sitch. No wonder you've received "threatening" emails in the past! People either love you or hate you. And believe me dear, it's not because you "shock people out of being the victim" - you have not done that to me... you shock people into utter disbelief that someone with such little knowledge of the facts has the GALL to prance around with such disregard for other's feelings. How dare you call me a victim. How dare you imply that I am heading down a painful road unless I take more responsibility. How dare you talk ABOUT me behind my back!
Let's just agree not to agree, shall we? Obviously we're not going to see eachother's POV's ... you see black while I see white. Actually, I do SEE your POV, however... it's just not accurate of the sitch and who my H and I are. Sorry, but you can't push me into the same category as your ex-H who needed prozac, and cheated on you. I love and respect my H way too much to ever stoop like that.
Quote: Sorry, but you can't push me into the same category as your ex-H who needed prozac, and cheated on you. I love and respect my H way too much to ever stoop like that.
LD - you are completely misinterpreting what I said. I meant that I worried that if you were unable to see things from your H's POV also, he might be vulnerable to having an affair in the future, when some young thing comes onto him. I want nothing for you but a happy outcome where you can enjoy a loving and sexual R with your H. You stated yourself that he said he was asleep when he started (yes, I understood that he was awake when you woke up). You stated yourself that he was your "knight in shining armour" so I gathered that he was a pretty good guy in other parts of your R. I just hate to see you lose perspective on the pain that he is experiencing by being rejected by you, too.
As for my last post about victims - I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about how, for those of us who have survived infidelity, putting ourselves in our spouses shoes is the key to not getting stuck in a victim mode. I was not referring to you. I was referring to the many people I know in life who never get over the breakdown of their marriages, and how that is a danger for those of us in this part of the forum.
I hadn't planned to mention you again in my thread, I am sorry if you take offense at my too blunt efforts to help, and believe me, I won't waste any more of my time trying.
kayaking was fun but exhausting. I think I will do it again. My H is coming around and checking in about every 4 days now. School starts for him today, I think he is teaching 8 classes this semester, so he will be one busy puppy. All the better to put things on the back burner, eh? 
