Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Long Distance Issues.....Possible WAW

"Blccccch." NEEDY and SUPPLICATING.

Go with the one I suggested previously, and Coach just endorsed.

Puppy

GoG,

I know it's incredibly hard not to ask and tell her what you're thinking, but you just can't. It's the hardest thing I've learned, the greatest thing I've lost so far. I can't share my deepest thoughts and fears with my STBXW. If you do, it's completely counterproductive. I know that everything in your heart, every romantic comedy you've ever watched, all you know is SCREAMING at you to tell her how you feel.

Don't.

All you'll do is push her further away.

Separation and divorce require letting someone go. If they truly love you, what you are and what you are becoming, the distance they get by taking wing might, just might bring them back. But chasing them, pursuing them, smothering them never works. At best it just results in a delay of the inevitable.

I know you're hurting, and everyone here knows your pain and loss.

Trust Coach, PDT, RobX, etc for their advice. They've seen more broken hearts than any counselor or therapist, and their success rate is probably far higher.

God be with you, and may he ease your pain.

"Amen."

Thanks guys. It looks like I don't even need to worry about what to say anymore. She hit me up on Skype last night and told me that we needed to talk. So we did for the next few hours, but only the first hour or so were about us.

I stayed the course the best I could. I let her tell me about her feelings and what was going on with her. I wish I could say that I learned a lot. The only true thing I did learn is how much pain she is in. I never seen sadness in her eyes like I did last night. She said she wants to end our marriage as quickly and painlessly as possible. When I asked her what the hurry was, she said that her feelings could not be changed, and that she did not want to hate me after this. I told her that I would come home, that we could work on it together, and she said that she didn't want to anymore. She said that if I needed to come home, she more than understood, but she was still going forward with this. How do you argue with that? I couldn't!

She went on talk about what she wanted out of the divorce, and she said that her number one wish was for me to be in our kids lives. I told her if she truly felt that way, that she would give me shared physical custody. To truely give up the same things I would be, and give me a real chance to be a real Dad. She said that she wouldn't want it any other way. We talked about what happens if I have to move, everything. She was accomodating in everything. So I was torn in my feelings after this, if she is so unhappy that she would give me all of this, what can i do to make her stay? She is giving up what I fear the most in losing, just for chance at happiness. It makes me so sad that I got so complacent in my relationship. It breaks my heart that she is feeling this way. So right now, the only thing i can do is give her what she wants most. And most of all, I can make her happy one last time.

My biggest fear about divorce is becoming an every other weekend Dad. If I can avoid this and my wife and I can settle everything between ourselves, why should I not let her go? I think I have to. She pretty much said that she was going to talk to a lawyer anyways. I might as well keep it friendly and keep my kids. It is going to make my life over here hard for some time, but thoughts of my kids will keep me strong.

It is time for me to continue moving forward. To better myself, so I am that strong man my kids will need when I get home.

I know that i am not the fastest learner, but this about sums up my feelings....

How can one person save a marriage that the other does not want to save? You can't, you detach and let go. You concetrate on making yourself the best person you can be. The rest will work itself out.

I guess I needed to hear it from her sincerely, and not in a heat of rage for 5 minutes. It has truly sunken in now. I just hope that she meant everything that she said about me, my kids, and custody. Does anyone out there have any advice? I'm interested in how to go about this amongst ourselves. Then have a lawyer go over it with each of us? Is this possible and a sound decision?

Thanks again for everyone's input and support. It has been invaluable this past week.

YES, YOU COULD (and should). You say:

"I'm really sorry you feel that way. I certainly hear you, and that this is what you want. It's not what I want, however, and I think we owe it to our kids to not just cut and run here because one of us suddenly wants out of the marriage."

Gator, this is CLASSIC infidelity addiction talking. Was this woman previously a good mother? A good wife? A woman of good moral character? You seem like a great guy, and I find it hard to believe you would have picked anyone who WASN'T for your life partner. Why would a woman like this suddenly THROW THAT ALL AWAY, WITHOUT EVEN TRYING???

It's the ADDICTION talking. What you need to decide is, do you want to FIGHT that, and aggressively try to bust the affair (separate the addict from the source of their addiction), and then DB ("2a"), or if you want just go the "Setting Them Free" route ("2b").

Here's the thing. A lot of people pick "2b" right out of the chute, or -- worse -- they don't even do THAT right (there's an ART to doing it, as Guccci outlines in his current, excellent thread on the subject). This is NOT the same as "giving up/giving in." And they do that (pick "2b") because they think it's EASIER.

But the sad, painful truth is, no matter WHAT you do ("2a," "2b," "While They Wait," something else), YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WADE THRU A WHOLE BUNCH OF CHIT FOR THE NEXT 3-24 MONTHS. People think if they just stop fighting, the pain goes away. But it doesn't, and it'll actually be WORSE, because you'll be all down on yourself for NOT doing what you think is "The Right Thing to Do," and you won't be setting the agenda for your family.

WHY ARE YOU ALLOWING YOUR WIFE TO SET THE AGENDA FOR THE POTENTIAL END OF YOUR MARRIAGE, when she is the ONE person who DOES NOT HAVE ITS BEST INTERESTS AT HEART RIGHT NOW???

In fact, I'll take it one futher: She does not have your FAMILY'S best interests at heart right now.

We can talk about all of the specifics, but this (deciding what you want to do) is really the first thing that has to happen.

Puppy

WRONG. NOT WHEN THERE IS INFIDELITY INVOLVED.

What you describe is what we call around here the "Little Bo-Peep" approach, Gator. You know, "leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them." There's a real problem with that, but before I even get to that, since when did "it'll work itself out" become a PLAN???

Anyway, there's TWO problems with your current thinking, Gator:

1) You're in NO FRAME OF MIND right now to make such an important decision as "How to handle the potential end of my marriage, and the end of my intact family." No, you can't wait a week or two to make a decision about your best course of action here, but you DON'T need to be deciding anything TODAY. You just had the other half of a huge BOMB drop on you for godssakes.

2) If she is having an affair (and I am 99% certain that she is), then she is ADDICTED.

From my personal archives:


“Affairs are ADDICTIONS” – and they DON’T “die a natural death!”

I'm sorry, but I think you're being naive. Check out my # of posts -- I've been here six years (counting my prior time as "Chocolateeyes") and have studied literally THOUSANDS of affairs. I've simply never seen the "Little Bo-Peep" approach work. You leave them alone, and they WON'T come home, wagging their tails behind them.

Affairs are ADDICTIONS. Google "PEA brain love lust addiction" and do some research on it. And then try to name for me ONE other type of addiction -- gambling, alcohol, drugs, sexual addiction, ANYTHING -- that dies its own natural death if you leave it alone.

You can't.

In fact, nearly all begin to ESCALATE, as the addict needs a stronger and stronger rush to get their "fix."


Let me ask you an important question, Gator:

If the situation were reversed, and say you had a gambling or alcohol addiction. Would you want your wife to fight for you, or just let you go??

Food for thought.

Puppy

My sitch is almost identical. My wife is a good person, a caring mother, and although I've been neglectful, she's always chosen to stay. So now suddenly, she has broken free. I'd swear there was an OP despite all the intel, or she's having one hell of a MLC. Everytime she mentions making decisions based on our children, I want to scream.

PDT has it exactly right for both of us.

Puppy/Pinhead,

Everything you say makes sense. I know that there is a missing peice of the puzzle, and I know what the peice is. My problem is I can not prove anything. I do not know where to begin from over here. She is dead set on this, and there was no wavering. When I would make a logical point, her only answer was "I'm sorry, this is how I feel". You can't argue with that.

The part that has really got me in a bind is her giving me everything that I asked for in the divorce. Shared physical, doesn't want the house or equity, no mention of pension or 401k, and even said that she doesn't want that much money. Just enought to help her with the kids when she has them.

What I am deathly afraid of is fighting her on this, and then her getting mad and changing her mind. I know this sounds like I'm giving up, and I guess you can say, that I am. But only on her. I will be getting what I want as far a relationship with my kids. Yes, I know, I am still giving up a lot. 50% of seeing them grow. I mentioned this to her when I told her not to give up. She didn't even know what I was talking about. That is when I explained to her that we BOTH would be missing every other Christmas, week, summer, ect. Essentially missing out of half of our kids growing up. She started crying and said that she was sorry, that is how she grew up, and didn't even think to look at it that way.

It's heart breaking, and I am too afraid to gamble anymore time away from my kids and their finicial security. Do I love my wife, yes. Do I love her more than my kids, not even close anymore.

I pressed her to wait. I told her that we could take our time. She could stay in the house while I was gone. It would help us both. I would have someone to maintain it and she could save some money. I told her that this was a desision that was going to affect the rest of our kids lives and that we owed it to them not to rush. She didn't want to hear it. She is CONVINCED that the only way to be happy is to leave our relationship.

I know that it screams OM, but what am I to do. I could hire a PI, I already looked at some local ones online. But how much will that cost me? What happens when I expose it? Who's to say that she doesn't loose her mind and decide that she wants the kids full time, and everything that she can take from me? It's just too damn scary. I would feel like I was playing poker with my relationship with my kids at stake. I cannot and will not gamble that. My daughter is only 7mon's old and I want her to know who her Daddy is. If I get shared physical custody, I know she will know.

I am sorry, I know I am sounding like the biggest pussy in the world, but I am scared. Losing my wife will be hard enough, and believe you me, I know it is not going to be an easy road. But I can not lose my wife and kids. It would kill me.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I would risk my job, income, savings, losing time with my kids, everything if she just wanted to try! I cannot risk everything in my life to quit, go back, only to find yes, there is OM and she is still leaving me. I will not be able to recover from that.

She has always been a great mother. She has always been their for my kids. What she is doing right now might seem irrational from a financial POV, but from a taking care of the kids POV, I think she is still doing that. She is letting me be in as big a part of their life as possible. Well, maybe not if she is leaving me........

Oh God, maybe everything she is doing is irrational........

I am so [censored] confused right now. I am sorry.

I only have a moment, G8, but you bring up an alternative option, and that is "the Sweetheart Deal." You could put a sweetheart (for you) deal in front of her, get her to sign off on it, divorce her, and then -- who knows -- maybe reconcile at some point down the line when she ends her affair or whatever funk it is she's going thru.

I really only recommend this when it's someone you really DON'T want to be married to, never WAS much of a good wife/mother, and when the deal is a real "sweetheart" one -- the one you describe sounds to me like the kind of fair, "50/50" deal you two should be talking about ANYWAY.

I'll check back with you later, but here's what I would ask you to help you decide: imagine yourself sitting down with your son, and he's 25 years old now. And he asks you "Dad, why didn't you fight harder for your marriage to Mom? Why did you just give her what she wanted, when you knew divorce would be bad on the whole family?"

You'll want to have some DAMNED GOOD, be-able-to-look-him-in-the-eyes answers on that day, G8.

Puppy