Wow, so much to disagree with, where do I start. I've got a busy day, so I'll just pick two:
Originally Posted By: Allen A
Flirting leads to sexchat. Sexchat leads to internet affair. Internet affair leads to physical affair.
Rarely. That's like saying "casual drinking of beer leads to casual drinking of hard liquor leads to alcohol addiction." While it's true that nearly all alcoholics probably followed that path, it's also true that the overwhelming majority of people who started out casually drinking of beer DON'T end up becoming alcoholics.
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There are tons of articles on the www about this pup... MOST people cannot manage flirting safely.. at work or elsewhere...
Oh c'mon!!! Are you REALLY intending to say that "most people," statistically, who flirt end up having affairs? I'm not sure what the current statistics are on affairs, and like most polls, it all depends on how you define "affair" and how you ask the question, the methodology, etc., but let's say it's 40% for men and 35% for women, just for the sake of argument. Probably 90% of both flirt!!!
I dunno, Allen, maybe you're defining "flirting" differently than I am. I like to define flirting the same way I define EAs: if you're not comfortable with your spouse seeing/hearing what you're doing, then it's not appropriate. And I'm saying that there are millions of happy, healthy marriages out there, where the man or the woman is perfectly comfortable with their spouse harmlessly acting flirty even when it's in front of them. In fact, if done properly, some spouses find the confidence attractive.
And trust me, they'll let you know when you crossed the line.
Just becuase your SPOUSE IS comfortable with what you're doin don't mean its a good idea... A LOT of men AND women out there are VERY NAIEVE about the DANGERS of flirting and online sex chat.. .some thing its perfectly fine as long as it doens't get physical... they have NO IDEA that their spouses are playing with fire...
I am not comfortable using a trusting spouse's judgement as the guideline for safety in flirting or online chat... Not by a long shot...
I think it was Shirley Glass who said "you never know if you are crossing the line until you are on the other side of it, and then its too late."
Well, the great Rev. Billy Graham would agree with you. When someone once asked him how he remained scandal-free all of these years, despite other (nearly every?) other person in THAT kind of position of lofty power seems to succomb to the temptations of attractive women practically THROWING themselves at you (not to mention the spiritual enemy seeking to destroy your ministry), Graham said something like:
"It's very simple. I never allowed myself to be alone in my office -- or anywhere else -- with another woman who wasn't my wife, with the door closed."
So for a healthy marriage QS you advocate a zero tolerance on flirting with the opposite sex for both spouses?
I am leaning that way...
I understand pup's point that likley less than 10% of people who flirt end up taking it into an EA. My problem is that is a SMALL RISK there... and I can't see enough GAIN to make it worth it.
Like speeding on the freeway... If you DO speed you MIGHT get home quicker... BUT you have to assess the RISK and decide if its worth it...
With flirting I just can't find ANY GOOD REASON to go outside the marriage to do it...
So, I say zero tolerance until someone can give me a half decent reason as to why one should risk that ten percent chance of it being taken too far...
(or whatever the % is... I just pulled ten out of my arse)
Many individuals have stated that cybersex and online flirting is always harmful to a real-time relationship. Whether or not this is true, there are clearly some unique factors that make cyberflirting different than real-time flirting. In normal human flirtation, there’s typically an implicit, and sometimes explicit, boundary. The boundary states that this flirtatious behavior is pleasant but that it has a clear limit. It is often understood that we may engage in casual flirtatious language, share a glance, make a sexual joke, or tease each other in a provocative manner, but that this is as far as it will go.
Most of these cues are a complex combination of verbal and nonverbal communications, many of which, are not easily expressed on the Internet. Innuendo, exclamation, verbal punctuation, facial gestures, and intonation are all absent on the Net. Combine these factors with the ease of availability, anonymity, and the disinhibition that occurs on the Net, and you have fertile ground for an intensely flirtatious experience without the boundaries found in real-time interaction. All this occurs without of the normal social cues that promote reasonable boundaries. People can easily become carried away experiencing and expressing strong sexual emotion.
It’s Easy to Get Carried Away There have been numerous cases in which people started out on the Net only for the purposes of engaging in casual conversation that unintentionally ended up being highly sexual in nature. In addition, because of the accelerated intimacy that they experience, these people became more involved, more rapidly, then they ever intended. People often report that they experienced levels of intimacy and self-disclosure that were unparalleled in their real-life relationships! Needless to say, this can be highly problematic to your marriage or relationship.
Again, because of accelerated intimacy and disinhibition, people will share information with their Net mate that they wouldn’t ordinarily share in their real-time relationship. This can represent a potential significant threat to any primary relationship or marriage. The relaxed conversation style, combined with the sexual themes that often appear in Internet communication, offer serious competition to sometimes mundane real life. After all, how can everyday life compete with the intense, uninhibited excitement of relationships online? If you want to assess your dependence on an online relationship, or gauge its seriousness, consider discontinuing the online relationship. If that relationship has become a significant one, it will be a difficult break to make. You are experiencing a similar scenario that people undergo when assessing an actual affair—that is, when people address the issues of the marriage versus the affair. To some extent, however, you will always be comparing a fantasy to real life, which is a tough comparison.
Cybersex A major phenomenon that has occurred on the Internet is the occurrence of online affairs. I have treated and interviewed numerous individuals who’ve had online and real-time sex outside of their marriage or primary relationship that in all cases started as simple cyberflirting. Often they report tremendous excitement in their cybersexual encounters, which are then typically repeated. A common question that people have is whether or not an online affair is cheating. The answer to this question is somewhat complex; however, I’ve distilled it down to a simple formula: Any time you spend a significant amount of intimate time with another person outside your primary relationship, you may be breaching intimacy rules in your relationship. It’s a personal decision in each relationship whether spending time online and having cybersex are a breach of the relationship contract. Our research does demonstrate, though, that for those who use the Internet addictively, online cybersex frequently extends from cyberspace to the bedroom! From “Virtual Addiction” by Dr. David Greenfield, copyright 1999, 2006.
I've got a busy day, so I'll just pick two: