Well thanks to some great advice over on the newcomers forum under "husband's behavior is confusing", I successfully exposed and confronted my husband about his EA/PA with his long-time (7 years) best friend at work. He agreed to end the affair and they see each other only very minimally at work. He has given me his phone, computer, etc. and I feel somewhat comfortable that they are not communicating (I know it takes time to feel comfortable).
Also adding to that is the fact that the OW's husband and I are in close contact and I know that she is definitely angry with my H right now because he continued to have intimate relations with me after starting up the PA with her, basically cheating on her with me which she did not know. They are in the process of divorcing, but the H of the OW says that she is making noises like she might want to reconcile.
Unfortunately, my H had already started divorce proceedings before I busted the affair and as of now he still SAYS he wants to divorce. He has been very open about the affair, answering any questions I ask of him, however, I haven't asked many as I'm still trying to process my own emotions.
We did have a nice conversation last night where we talked about our week, the first week since the affair was exposed. He said it was a really difficult week, and I told him it was normal to miss the OW a lot right now (because that's what I read in Not Just Friends, etc) and he said yeah, he misses his best friend and cried a bit. He asked what the hardest part of the week was for me and I told him the realization that I have to work through this affair on my own and will come out on the other side by myself (because he is still planning on divorce).
We currently act normal in front of the kids (6 & 3), then go our separate ways after they are in bed in different parts of the house and sleep separately. My question is - what now? According to the books I'm reading, talking calmly and openly about the affair and our feelings from the affair will build intimacy between us. That if I can validate his feelings and not attack him that we might be able to work through this together. How does this fit with DBing?
I think for the first time in months he is starting to see the future as NOT having the OW in it and it is freaking him out. Will this be enough to bring him back? What can I be doing to help the process along, if anything?
I think you are doing great by the sounds of it... After the affair is ended there is about three months of withdrawal...
This is even tougher if they keep communicating at work. He really needs to minimize that if he has any respect for you. I really do'nt know why he has to talk to her at all...
I am a bit suspiciuos about someone who claims to have ended their affair, continues to talk at work and still pushes for divorce... SOrry, but I don't know if I believe the affair is over...
Affairs do NOT die easily, you have to keep beating them on the head with a baseball bat for weeks.. there's often a LOT of backpeddling and up and down on and off time... Gradually teh excitement of the affair wears off and the embarassing stress isn't worth it anymore.
Keep talking wtih him.. do NOT dwell on the divorce... show him what he's giving UP if he chooses divorce ... Don't take filing as meaning its over... many people change their minds at the last minute.
Important question... Did he file when he was expecting the OW to be waiting for him?
That may be a huge point in your favour if he was hoping OW would be there for him when he was divorced...
I would not complain about the divorce, I would try to show him what he'll be missing.
I certaily hope he knows his life with you is NEVER over since you have kids togehter... Have you read the first chapter of Divorce Remedy?
Kids HATE divorce, it makes them miserable and does a LOT of emotinoal damage.
If your H was expecting OW to be there after the divorce and NOW she's not and He has kids iwth you he really needs to start thinking this through a LOT MORE
ARe you two seeing a GOOD family tehrapist?
Not a quack shrink, a real family tehrapist with a degree in social work i mean...
I don't know exactly what they talk about at work, but I know that their behavior this week (not talking except in meetings, not going to lunch together) already has people at work talking. He complained to me last night that a woman at work kept asking "are you and OW in a fight? Why are you ignoring each other?" They have been inseparable at work for the past 7 years so this is definitely not normal behavior for them.
And yes, I firmly believe that the entire push for divorce was because he thought they would come out the other side together forever. That he really didn't ever see himself as someone who would have an affair, but if they ended up married and happily ever after then the affair would have been justified. Now it's not looking like that is going to happen and I think the full realization of his horrible behavior is starting to hit home. She had already filed a few months ago and I'm sure she was egging him on to divorce me as well.
And yes, I've read DR cover to cover several times. I have been DBing since early May. My numerous changes have been acknowledged several times in couples counseling, but I believe that because of the affair my changes didn't have much hope of convincing him to stay.
So I keep talking with him about the affair or just talking in general? Do I initiate friendly touches on the arm etc. or hold back on all that for now? It has only been slightly over a week since I exposed the affair.
Is he at all willing to do anything to repair damage?
He can't keep up chatting with her at work... He will never get over the addiction like that...
From Penny Tupy :
Infidelity and the Egg
Penny R. Tupy 2004
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Humpty Dumpty had a great fall All the King's horses And all the King's men Couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again
I'm often asked why people who have affairs must permanently end all contact with their affair partner if their marriage is to recover and heal. After all, they were often friends with the lover prior to the affair and they don't want to lose the friendship along with all the other losses an affair leaves in its wake.
There are lots of quick and easy answers to that question. Ongoing contact is offensive and painful for the spouse, the affair is likely to rekindle, true healing of the marriage can't begin while the involved spouse is still emotionally connected to the affair partner. They are all valid reasons and there are good scientific reasons to back them up. So what more is there to say? I had a sudden visual image the other day that spoke to me about this issue and I'm hoping I can relay it in a way that makes it clearer.
The vast majority of affairs occur with someone we know. A close friend, co-worker, or even family member. Prior to an affair, even relationships as close as long term friendships retain a level of distance. Shirley Glass (Not Just Friends, 2003) describes it well when she speaks about the walls healthy marriages have erected around the couple to protect them from outside risks.
Intimacy requires vulnerability. As an affair couple moves along the continuum from friendship to lover layers of protection are peeled away. Topics that were off limits become primary areas of conversation. Touch that is reserved for the marriage is now exchanged with someone outside the marriage. Looks that pass between lovers are different than those that pass between friends and that layer or protection is now peeled away as well. Little by little, the walls that surround and protect the marriage are breached. The layers of distance are stripped away leaving the partners open, vulnerable, and intimately known at a level deeper than merely friendship.
When couples connect at this level they come to know each other in a way that cannot be reversed. They cannot unknow what they have come to see beneath the layers. Nor can they disconnect entirely from the intimacy that knowing creates.
When the affair ends, as most do, the layers of protection are gone. Just as all the King's Horses and all the King's Men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again – neither can we replace the layers covering the deepest most vulnerable parts of our being. We have been seen and we cannot remove the memory of that vision. An orange, once peeled, is forever revealed. The same is true of the human heart and soul.
Years later, an old flame – long forgotten and newly met – can touch us in ways someone who has not known us so deeply has no power to do. We know the inner core of our former loves, and they ours. This is, at the primal level, the reason contact with an affair partner must permanently end. That knowing – that depth of connection – cannot be undone. To remain in contact is to ever put the marriage at risk. To remain in contact sabotages our ability to recreate that level of knowingness and intimacy with our mate.
This is why our spouses are so offended and threatened with continued or renewed contact. They intuitively sense the missing protective layers of unknowing. They instinctively recognize the connection that has been created and the danger it poses to the marriage. They know in their depths that as long as contact continues healing cannot fully occur.
Friends can easily become lovers. But the reverse is not true. Lovers cannot easily become "just" friends.
Thanks for the article by Penny Tupy, Allen. I had used her website to craft my exposure and confrontation - she has a lot of good ideas. And I don't think they are "chatting" at work. I think when they have to talk it is more like "who is going to work on this part of the project" and most of those conversations are via e-mail, not in person. I know they have had a few meetings that they are both in, with other people as well, that he said they don't sit next to each other in anymore.
As far as your question about repairs - what kind of repairs do you mean? So far he has acted very sorry about what has happened and has been willing to talk with me about the affair as much as I have asked. He has asked me to take his Blackberry and computer up to my room at night so I know he's not talking with her, etc. He deleted the IM program from his computer (their main form of communication outside of work). I think he would very much like to help ease my pain some, but I haven't really known what would help, as right now my pain is still divided between the affair and the divorce.
I just would feel more comfortable if I had some kind of plan...
If he wanted to ease your pain he would END the divorce proceedings until you were BOTH on side with the idea.
i would put that to him immeidiately.
I don't like the fact that you are pursuing divorce without my consent. I think that ending a marriage should be a mutually consentual decision don't YOU? I would like you to end that right now until we have had time to sort things out properly.
Something like that.
If he is REALLY sorry he will do that.
And talking via email is WORSE than in person in my opinion. In person in the open public at work, particulary if others are present the convo wont' stray into "I miss you" or sexual innuendo... email is VERY easy for them to take advantage of unlike in person in public when its a lot harder.
If he was really sorry he would explain to management that he can't work with her anymore and wants to be put in separate projects from now on.
There is NO NEED for him to be in any contact with her at work if he's really willing to work on repairing the damage here.
You have to realize how EASY it is for this to start up again. Especially as the divorce looms closer...
Acting sorry is one thing, but putting up a wall to her at work is another. I just think he could do a lot more to set your mind at ease there... You want to just trust him, but I have seen too many of these things end and start up again later... They don't end quickly, particularly when contact is continued at any level at all.
You should put a plan together of how to repair this...
Put a list of things for HIM to do at work to earn back your trust and YOU put a list of things together to help him believe the marriage won't be like it was when the affair started.
The lists should look equal in size and effort. If the hosue was messy and he didn't like that before the affair then you make a point in your list to ensure the house is tidy etc...
You can start to draft a plan on your own and share it with him later on... Just make sure you both have a lot of work items there... Or fights will start up...
I Do think there's more he can do at work to minimize contact... There are couples who have changed jobs and moved away to repair the damage made by the affair.. All your Husband appears willing to do is to move his desk further away?
Sorry, I am not swooning by that at all...
You have to look at this like dating... You feel violated by this woman and the best he can do is move his desk? That sounds like Mr Right to me! [scarcasm]
You can start journalling the list here if you want... you should get a lot of input on that...
If he wanted to ease your pain he would END the divorce proceedings until you were BOTH on side with the idea.
i would put that to him immeidiately.
I don't like the fact that you are pursuing divorce without my consent. I think that ending a marriage should be a mutually consentual decision don't YOU? I would like you to end that right now until we have had time to sort things out properly.
Something like that.
If he is REALLY sorry he will do that.
And talking via email is WORSE than in person in my opinion. In person in the open public at work, particulary if others are present the convo wont' stray into "I miss you" or sexual innuendo... email is VERY easy for them to take advantage of unlike in person in public when its a lot harder.
If he was really sorry he would explain to management that he can't work with her anymore and wants to be put in separate projects from now on.
There is NO NEED for him to be in any contact with her at work if he's really willing to work on repairing the damage here.
You have to realize how EASY it is for this to start up again. Especially as the divorce looms closer...
Acting sorry is one thing, but putting up a wall to her at work is another. I just think he could do a lot more to set your mind at ease there... You want to just trust him, but I have seen too many of these things end and start up again later... They don't end quickly, particularly when contact is continued at any level at all.
Well I'm glad to see that what I wanted to talk to him about tonight is top on your list - the divorce. We are scheduled to meet with the Friend of the Court on Tuesday to make decisions about custody, child support and spousal support. I was planning on approaching him along these lines:
"I don't feel that either of us are in the position right now to be making informed, rational decisions about the rest of our lives. I know my feelings change from day to day, sometimes minute to minute and I am uncomfortable making decisions about our kids and our future finances at this time. I'd like to put the divorce on hold right now while we work out our emotions regarding the affair and our relationship. Once we are both thinking more clearly we can make a decision together about divorce or reconciliation."
I think if he will agree to that then I will definitely try and figure out exactly what is or is not a threat in the workplace. If nothing else, I also plan on asking him if he is willing to work with me in discussing some of the mechanics of the affair (when, where, how long, etc.) while leaving the why and the feelings out of it for now. That's based on the books I'm reading that the whys need to wait until we are feeling a bit more safe with each other. Right now I'm afraid anything I say to him will be used against me in a court of law, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same way.
