Thanks puppy. I'll try to give yo a little more background.
I did try to initiate sex with her A LOT. Almost every day and sometimes at night and then in the morning again. I did pursue her even when she had a yeast infection and it hurt her some. But she never turned me down. I asked her why and she said it wasn't that easy with the pressure I was putting on her. I would "make the moves" and she would give in. She was trying to make me happy. I told her that lifting her butt off the bed so I could slide off her panties was the same as saying yes. I guess I apologized, but I always tried to defend my actions in the past. I didn't realize how hurt she really was.
I don't know. Even after she blew-up in Jan, when she said she probably wouldn't want to have sex for a while, we still did it a number of times per week at first. She even initiated a couple times and then said she just did it for me, wanted to get it over with and got nothing out of it. Except orgasms, I say. One night she got 2 and then went out to the garage for her usual smoke. I was in the bathroom when she came back so she found me and said "Thanks for the great "O", two of them." I told her that is why I was confused. A few days later it was the same story, did it for you, resent you for it, etc.
Then, in May, after her planned meeting with OM (with friends in tow, of course)fell apart, I came home from a 2 night camping trip with our S and had to leave shortly on a 2 night business trip, I aksed her if she wanted to "go upstairs" for a few minutes before I had to leave. She said, "No, but I will do it if you want me to." I turned that down because that had backfired on me once before and she continues to hold that over my head too. I asked her later if she would have resented me if I would have taken her up and she said "probably". I said, "You can't keep doing this. It is not fair to agree and then hold it against me. Why would you do that?" Her reply was "I don't know. Hoping you would turn me down."
The other time this happened, I was still in bed in the am and asked her to come back for some fun. She said there wasn't one ounce of her that wanted to do it with me at the moment, but if I wanted to, she would. What do you think I did? Later she drug this back out and said "Who does that?" So I said, "Who comes over and gets back in bed? Why didn't you just walk away?" I still don't know why.
Our relationship has been a lot of sex since the very beginning. I always thought we had a great time. After the kids, it got tougher on her, I am sure, but still rarely said no, and when she did, it was no.
Dan, when they re-write marital history, there's stuff in there about how you were mostly this <negative> way, never <did this positive thing or two> and how you made her feel <somehow bad that justifies treating you like crap>.
That is unless you really keep asking for it, and then you get the laundry list and the 'I don't think I ever loved you' kind of crap.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
Dan, I think you need a woman's perspective on this. I don't see this as rewriting or blameshifting. I think she's finally being honest with you about something she's wanted to tell you for a long time. I can totally see your W's point of view on the intimacy issue. She DID tell you no. You didn't listen to her and continued to pursue. She just caved because it was easier than fighting you off until you gave up.
Re-read your own post. Can't you see how wrong you were in some of those examples? She said there wasn't one ounce of her that wanted to do it with me at the moment, but if I wanted to, she would. Why in the world would you pursue her after she said that? It's not a strong no, but it's a no. Having sex while she has an infection? That's all about you not her. That tells her in a very intimate way that her needs or even her health are not important to you.
As women we are programmed to please our H's, meet their needs. She should have talked to you about how she was feeling but it doesn't sound like you were listening very well then. Not to mention, it's really hard to talk to someone about something so intimate when you already feel like you're not being heard.
You're right. I do appreciate a woman's perspective on this and I do agree with you and with her also. I have been an insensitive jerk in this area and I am more than ashamed of my actions. I just didn't see it while it was happening. You are right, it was easier for her this way, but she also should have said no more forcefully or just walked away when she had the chance instead of coming back to bed. I do understand that I should have listened better and I want her to know that I understand that now.
So the question at hand is whether or not to apologize for this since I have always defended myself against her claims of my selfishness, although I have apologized for everything else, I think. I spent 5 full months giving this everything that I had and I don't feel like she has really tried at all. I have been a doormat. So I am only 2 weeks in to DBing and now what do I do? Apologize yet again, or remain strong and detached. I can't stand the thought of losing her, but am getting stronger about moving on without her if I have to. All the guys have said "don't do it." I am waiting to hear from puppy again after he has some time to think about it. Part of me thinks this apology might melt her heart and part of me thinks she just doesn't care anymore and I can hardly blame her.
She/we have a really good life set-up and this D will be a major set-back for us all. I do have lots of good redeeming qualities too, but they may not be enough to offset my actions here. I just want this to work so badly. I want to do what works, not what I think is right.
Dan, I think you need a woman's perspective on this. I don't see this as rewriting or blameshifting. I think she's finally being honest with you about something she's wanted to tell you for a long time. I can totally see your W's point of view on the intimacy issue. She DID tell you no. You didn't listen to her and continued to pursue. She just caved because it was easier than fighting you off until you gave up.
Re-read your own post. Can't you see how wrong you were in some of those examples? She said there wasn't one ounce of her that wanted to do it with me at the moment, but if I wanted to, she would. Why in the world would you pursue her after she said that? It's not a strong no, but it's a no. Having sex while she has an infection? That's all about you not her. That tells her in a very intimate way that her needs or even her health are not important to you.
As women we are programmed to please our H's, meet their needs. She should have talked to you about how she was feeling but it doesn't sound like you were listening very well then. Not to mention, it's really hard to talk to someone about something so intimate when you already feel like you're not being heard.
Gosh...everything ^^^^ Bluestar said! Very good insight for Dan!
Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
How are you doing with the porn thing since you aren't having sex with your W? How long has it been since you had sex?
It's been at least 3 months and only very sporadic before that. I was doing it some, much less than before, but with no sex, it was tough. I tried to go to bed when she did and then just wanted to cuddle, but she didn't want any of that either. I was smothering her.
About a month ago I started taking the generic version of Paxil and have pretty much lost all interest, so I am doing better. This habit goes all the way back to my teens. I thought it was ok to be taking care of myself, especially if she didn't want to.
I'm a bit confused. Are you taking Paxil for depression? Are you, or have you ever been in sex therapy? IDK, but you say she would have sex and never say "no", but some places I read in your thread points to the fact you knew she didn't want to at times. Once you said she "rarely" said no.
I know what it is like to have sex when it is terribly painful. When the man continues to have sex even though she has told him how she feels....it can cause a lot of very negative feelings toward him. I also know that many women are taught that they are suppose to submit to the H wanting sex. If she does this for a span of time without the man becoming more considerate....well, it could close her heart to him.
If I understand it, you still do not see yourself as being selfish b/c you worked hard to give your family a nice life. A lot of that reasoning is due to the differences in how men & women think. Your W saw you being extremly selfish when you took care of your sexual needs regardless of how it made her feel. This was a huge blow to her already low self-esteem.
The fact that her body responded 80% of the time is no way to measure her feelings about having sex with you. What if you could only perform or finish 80% of the time?
It just seems that you were relentless in having sex 3 or more times a day. Until you can understand how she must have felt (at least as best you can), I don't think you will be able to see that as being an act of selfishness. But it is whenever she was run down, over-whelmed or whatever. That is what her main objection is, or so it appears to me. If you can't agree with how she saw it, then that will keep the two of you apart. A lot more than her having an EA.
I'm not supporting her having an EA.....but I understand it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
