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Hi jr - my life is crap and I dot think i am so wise, otherwise I would not be in this position.

900 miles diff..... i was thnking of maybe the next time you visit the kids , that you could try to geta few hours alone with her. Maybe you could be creative. How do you think she would feel , or how would you feel if you maybe sent her a gift. Could be something sgnificant to you both or smething humerous or something thoughtful. Nothing big. I know Dbing says not to do things like this but in your situation, how else can you connect.

I did hear a story on this board where a couple only had contact 5 times in 2 years and then reunited. Dont know why o how but maybe the distance and space healed whatever was wrong.

I am glad you have done the classes and I am sure she sees the changes in you. Baby steps.

This is a test of patience. Many months. At the same time, she needs to see the changes in YOU. That is why it is critical that these changes are FOR YOU and not for her. MsR2C can see my changes. There is no attempt to "Trick" her back. I am a changed man. I practice with everyone I come in contact with. I am committed to continue changing my Thoughts,Words and Actions to become a move loving human being. I pass out what I want to receive. I want more people smiling at me, I smile at more people. This is a universal law that works. If I want W to be more understanding, I need to be more understanding.....

While you are apart, work on you. Practice, practice, practice....others will be more receptive, note the reactions to your new behavior.. Become the man any woman would be crazy to leave....

Check out the books I listed on my thread. I got a lot out of them.

Anyway, with the little contact you have, you have to project the changed man to her.

Do a lot of listening and not much talking. Make it all about her. Ask "How are you?" and then LISTEN....Lots of clues....

The way you interact with your kids they talk alot. She will listen.

Thanks for some sound advice. I called my wife tonight for our weekly phone call. Very enjoyable conversation, as if we never parted, as if I was gone somewhere on business and I just called to say Hi. My wife had a very soft spoken voice, very friendly and gentle. I asked about her and her family, and she asked about my family.She even asked how I was doing, and at one point called me by my first name(this doesn't happen often since she left in Jun 08)

Never a word was said about the divorce proceedings. Sometimes I wonder: if she really wanted to push the proceedings and get it over with, she could have done it numerous times or even tonight by asking me all kinds of questions. But the issue never came up (my wife filed end of Jan 09). Is this a good sign? I have no idea.

When I talk with my boys on the phone, I always sound upbeat and ask them how they are doing, When I saw them in March 09, they came up to me one at a time in their own way and told me how much I changed. Each one said I don't yell anymore, I don't let little things upset me anymore, I found my sense of humor again, and I do more things with them as a father. I wonder if they told my wife ...Either way, I get it: the changes must be for me first.

Anyway, Thanks for all of you who have given me some sound advice lately. I know it has to be about me and I must make the changes work for me first.

Thanks for your support.

JR09

You even sound calm in your posts and I did not even know you before.

It all seems positive. I guess your next move is so important, dont want to rush and dont want to go to slow. There must be loads of other posters who can advice from here for you. I think Sandi2 is good and beakaway and smartcookie to name a few. Seek the out.

But for me it sounds 1000 times beter than my life, so good on you. I think you are reaping some rewards for making the better changes.

Pollyanna,

Thanks again for replying. How are YOU doing? I don't know much about your sitch. Can you share? It takes a very strong person to be able to help others and still go through one's own struggles. You are that person.

JR09

Hello jr09. I'm Sandi and want to welcome you to our community. Have you visited a thread by StrongMilitaryWife? She may be able to offer some advice.

Does the military offer help for the men/women who come back home and have M problems? There are many who have a hard time adjusting, so it seems that there would be some counseling available just for this area.

If you will go to other people's threads and post to them, it will help to build up your support system.

Wish you the best,
Sandi2

Sandi2,

Thanks for the advice, I read a few of your posts a while ago. Very insightful. What do you think about my sitch? What else can I do with my WAW?

JR09

Well, that is nice of you to ask. I wish I could be more helpful, but I can always talk....



If I may ask some questions so that we will have more details. The more we know the better we might be able to make suggestions. Was the MR different from the time you returned home? By that I mean.....was the R strained or just "different" and did you notice it being differnet than before as soon as you got back? Everyone should realize that anyone who has been where you have--needs to adjust to being home and getting back to what we call "normal". I'm sure it was not easy for her being here with the kids to raise, etc. Were you able to communicate very often with her while you were over seas? The military and war seems so different than when my dad was in the war. Back then, there was no communication except by letter. Did she move from base to base so she could be with you when you were stationed in the USA before the separation?

My dad was a very stern person when he was young. He was in WWII and was in front line action. Needless to say, it took its toll on him. But, he came home alive, got married, and some years later, I was born. Yes, I am one of those baby-boomers (lol). But that mentality of the military stayed with him during my growing up years. He was very strict and although he never hurt me (except for spanking he gave me) there was a "respect" that was almost like a fear.....until I was almost out of high school and then begin to understand him better. I don't know why I am telling you all this......except to say that in a very small way....I think I may understand a bit of the "carry over" from when you come back from being in the war. Not from your point of view, of course, but from the family's POV. I don't think anybody knows what "you" feel or the adjustment you have to go through, except the others who have been in your shoes.

Okay, for I have more questions. Was your angry outburst violent and do you feel that she had "reason" to be afraid and to leave with your kids.......or do you feel that she was looking for an excuse to leave you? Is she a strong person or one who can't take much stress? I'm just trying to get a better picture of what she is like. How was she while you were over-seas? Did she complain a lot about "everything" and how hard "she" was having it or did she talk about how much she missed and loved you? How long were you in Iraq? Sorry if I am asking something you have told already.

I can't imagine how awful it must be to not see your kids but three times in 11 months! I know you worry about it. Does she and you have a webcam where they could see you and talk to you at the same time? That would help a lot if it was set up that way.

Okay, more painful questions. Have you suspected her being emotionally attached to another man while you were in Iraq? It would be easy for a woman to turn to somebody who was a "support" person and then the emotions get in the way and first thing you know....there is an EA going on. It doesn't have to be a two-way thing, but usually it is if it is happening. If she moved away from you, however, I would think she must have moved away from the OM......."if" there was an EA. Not trying to make things worse, here, but trying to cover a lot of possible areas. Was there anything that you noticed a big change in "her" that did not seem normal?

About the counseling for your anger and being a stigma for military......I thought they provided that b/c so many men and woman need it due to the lifestyle of the military and especially if they have been in war. I suppose it is like other parts of the military "medical" areas where you feel like there isn't much privacy due to knowing the people there. I won't go into it, but I found out that military hospitals and doctors are certainly nothing like it is outside the military. So, is that why you don't want to go b/c of the word getting out that you have been in counseling and is it b/c the men ride you about it or can it be a serious mark on your military record? Just wondered how "far" the stigma went.

Well, I have asked a lot and when you are able to answer, then maybe we can go from there. In the meantime, let me join the others in saying that you seem to be doing well in working on yourself. However, I am concerned about the anger problem. I had a bit of one myself when I was a young mother. Nothing like you are talking about, but it could have led to some serious things if it had not scared me. I would start to spank my child and realize I was spanking too hard and I was mad.....but not at my child.....just at "things". When I would start to spank her then it was easy to let my temper take over. I needed some way of getting that anger out of my system b/c it was the result of things I could not control and then it came out at the wrong time. I don't know what I might have done if I had hurt her seriously or if my H had left and took our D with him. Again I am trying to let you know that I try to recognize just a tiny bit of what you are talking about when you say you have anger problems. I know it doesn't compare, but still I did experience several years that I had to be very careful or I could have taken it out on my children. I would have been very embarrassed to have gone to see a professional about that issue, however if it had meant it kept me from being abusive then I would have. I can understand "stigmas". Won't get into all of that either b/c this is about your stitch and not mine....but felt if I shared a little bit that you would know not to ever feel bad about what you share with me, okay?

Well, I have talked your ears off......and I have been known to write a long post or two..... but I think now I am just rambling. So, you take care and hope you have a good night.

Talk to you later,
Sandi

Hi Sandi,

Thanks a bunch for sharing and taking the time to care. To answer your questions:

- The R was definitely strained after my return from Iraq. Wasn't like that before. I noticed it myself with a lot of impatience, sudden anger outbursts for no apparent reason. It just exploded like a grenade, affecting both wife and children. The anger was never physical. Just verbal with,at times, a lot of decibels. The frequency was about every other week or so. Not daily. But it took its toll on the family each year.

- My wife and I communicated very well during all our separation with the military. Daily or at least weekly phone calls, emails, etc. My wife and I also have a good anchor in our faith, and church is an integral partof our life.

- I am 99% sure my wife never had any EAs during our 15 year M. I never had any reason to think about any type of EAs or PAs while I was gone. I may be wrong. But to this day, I am 99% sure that my wife does not have any EAs or PAs.

The night of our big fallout 11 months ago, I got really upset because my wife has been withdrawn for weeks at a time. She spent more time on the computer playing games, or sleeping with the boys instead of coming to bed with me. she always gave the excuse that the boys couldn't fall asleep so she would stay with them a bit. she ended up staying with them all night. I asked her that evening why she wouldn't stay with me. she said she felt she always had to walk on eggs around me, never knowing if I was in a good mood or not, never knowing when I'd blow up again, so she retreated into keeping to herself. I got irrated and yelled while following her thru the house. She decided the next day that this was too much and that I needed to seek help.
She packed the kids and left to stay with her parents, 900 miles away.

That was my wake up call when she said she wasn't coming back. I tried counseling briefly after returning from Iraq, but stopped after 4 sessions. I should have co ntinued. I turned down offers from my wife to go to counseling with her. That was 4 years ago. So after she left, I really took it seriously and truly worked on myself. I sought counseling off-base, so no one would know that I am in counseling. I have a crucial leadership position in the military and I just didn't want anyone to know that I had marital issues and PTSD.

Anyway, I did all the pursuing, begging, etc during the first 4 months after my WAW left. But then I stopped calling repeatedly or writing daily. I stuck to one weekly call. she wanted me to keep that going. I try to call my sons every 2-3 days, and see them about every 3 months physically. It's very hard.

- So here I am, Sandi. 11 months later. I still keep up with the weekly calls. My WAW and I have decent talks over the phone. Usually with a friendly tone. No mention of divorce (although she filed end of JAN 09), or anything to settle or expedite divorce proceedings.

- I am still in counseling since I started it 11 months ago, and I enjoy it a lot. The highlight of my week. I don't know if my wife is in counseling. No idea. I decided to keep up with the weekly calls to show consistency and showing my wife that I do respect her space and I will abide with that weekly call.

I don't know what else to do. So I finally got on this BB to seek advice from all of you.

A lot to chew on Sandi. Thanks for taking the time to read or respond. I do have thoughts of sometimes giving up. But I always believe the time is not now. Maybe I need to do something else, vary my phone call routine, do a 180, but what kind of 180?

Again THANKS for reading.

JR09

Last week, my WAW mentioned during our last phone conversation that the tires on her car were defective. Today, I called a tire shop in her hometown (900 miles away from where I am), paid for a set of used tires, and left a voicemail on her phone for her to go get her tires replaced. I did it because I love my wife and I also love our 3 boys dearly.

Was this a good move or did I break a DB rule?