Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers DESPERATE FOR HOPE AND UNDERSTANDING

WHAT TO DO....

W and I had our first session with a neutral T today. We took the advice of our own therapists and sought out one who was unbiased.

Even though it was only our first time, there was no change in my W's attitude. She still talks about wanting as amicable split as possible, she wants us to remain friends, she wants me to remain as big a part of our children's lives as I want, and she wants us to be able to do things together. The way I heard that: I want all the good things a family affords, but I don't want to fix the one I have that is broken.

Our T said, "You two have different goals." Yes, because I said that I hold the family as something precious and something that needs to be saved at all costs. The W got a little defensive when I spoke about the traditional F. She said, "H has a very 'traditional' definition of the word family.'

I said, 'Everything outside of the trad family is a myth.' You are either a family or you're not. You are either in tact or you are not.' You don't tear a family apart and then try to claim you still have a family and expect the H, who will do anything to make it work, to simply accept the alternative.

I was surprised a bit that she didn't seem to offer even a crack of hope, saying the reason she agreed to see a new T was that it might help me eventually accept the way she feels. I am not buying it.

The W claimed we never had a real M because of our intimacy problems. She said she has always been the caregiver and that as long as I was happy, she was happy. She doesn't talk about her feelings, never really has. She expected things to just get better. When my self-esteem issues, our mutual inhibitions, and our lack of intimate communication took hold it created a wall between us that I want to tear down.

She then went on saying that she feels "stuck" in her life because I am not accepting how she feels and looking to S -- although she still has not forced the issue. She seems to be waiting for me to "get it."

I assume happiness and getting unstuck come when you break a family apart. I don't understand my W's unwillingness to work on things, while seemingly believing that she will actually be happier when our kids don't have a present father.

I really don't know what to think anymore. What do I do? We've been going through the motions at home but not working to make anything better between us. I have been the best H and F I can be and it's falling on deaf ears, it seems. Just when I start to think she may be warming I get the door slammed on me again and again.

Do I stay engaged and active with the kids and always present in case she needs me to do something? Or should I check out in a sense after the K are asleep? She asks me to do things around the house, she asks for help, she asks me to do things for the sake of the household, and I do it and more. I do things without being asked and I show her how much I care about things that she felt I never cared about. I ask for nothing from her (well, verbally) and I can't seem to make any headway.

The T asked if we would come see her again and we both agreed. As we were leaving my W said, "What did you think of her? Do you want to keep seeing her?" I said, "I am willing to give her another chance and see where things go." If all she wants is out, why does she care what I think of the T? Is my W only going so the Grim Reaper can be in the room to make sure I never get any sense of hope?

Sandi...need your wisdom....please....

Hi there. Glad to hear from you. I have to leave my computer for the night, but I will do my best to reply tomorrow.

Did your W feel that your T was biased (maybe b/c he didn't agree with a S being the answer to her problem)? Is that why you found a new one? It's like she marched into the new T's office and said, "Now this is what I want!" Instead of waiting for the T to counsel the two of you. It sounds like she just wants to keep finding new T until she gets one to agree that S is the road to happiness. But IDK and I don't know what all the T said.

She has shut you out of her sexual life. From what you are saying about things, she has built a wall around herself and is shutting you out of everything concerning her emotional needs.

It is easy for a woman to give her babies all of her attention and physical energy....b/c they demand it. If she's not very careful,there is no energy or real interest to share with H when he comes home.....and at bedtime, she is so exhausted she just wants sleep.

If she is a perfectionist, and I think you said that she was.....that makes things much worse. After two years of this with the boys, it has become her life. Now, she is feeling some unfulfilled emotional needs, but she's built a wall around her. She's decided the problem must be the M. She's thinking that it can't be the children and that just leave "you".

Before going any further let me ask some questions, okay? Was everything in the R "normal" before she had the twins? I mostly mean did you have intimacy problem? You probably said but I can't remember.

Why do you think she's built a wall around herself? Women don't do that for no reason. That's not to say it is or is not b/c of you, but you have the closest look at this stitch, so what would you say would be the reason she's done this?

When women build a wall.....it's for a reason, and those first bricks could have started being laid years ago. Now, she is avoiding intimacy with you and trying to get out of the M.

If sex is the problem.......why?

Actually, no. We had seen her therapist as a couple and my therapist (a woman, BTW) as a couple. We were advised to seek a T that was not looking out for either of our interests...one that was "unbiased" and did make us feel like the T had only one persons interests in mind.



Well, yes. Our sexual issues go back years. My W has never once initiated intimacy. I guess she expects things to happen. The way I read her actions was that she wasn't interested at any given moment since she never expressed much desire. And so I started reacting to those actions by withdrawing. Personally, I have struggled with low self-esteem and feelings of being undesireable. Was that because she wasn't an initiator? Maybe. My feelings for her have always been strong. This is a part of our R that we both contributed to in negative ways over time to the point where it became too large and confusing to deal with. I want that wall taken down.



Normal in that we loved each other and have always maintained strong emotional ties to each other. Never fought. Intimacy was something we struggled with.



She has said I hurt her by not at times "being there" for her and the kids. She has said that I would put myself before her. That was the perception, and reality in many ways IS perception. She has built a wall around herself and that hurt and she won't let me in. She will barely acknowledge the fact that in the past 4 months I am a completely different person. She said, "I am happy for the kids' sake."

She said she feels "stuck" because I am around. So stuck that all the help I give and all the time I spend with the kids and efforts to lighten the stress she feels is making her feel STUCK. I guess just the fact that I am there is making her feel that way. No, don't think beyond that. She doesn't want to work on anything, despite the fact that we have identified our issues. She wants me to be close, esp. for the children. She wants me at an arm's reach. But she won't try to fix what has been broken. She has bottled everything up for years and now it has exploded.

As she was explaining her position to the T, she said, "But through it all we are really good friends." She wants the friendship w/o the M, and I can't accept that esp. since we have 2 kids. I can't be half of something and I don't want to make concessions to appease her irrational thought. She won't come totally clean with her issues and work to get over them.

I heard someone talking about marriage today and it hit home with me. Aside from living at a time when we've lowered the bar on everything it seems, we have done the same to the commitment we make when entering into M. Ask any couple that has made it 20, 30, 40, 50 years together if they loved each other every day for 50 years or even LIKED each other. The answer is no. Every couple faces challenges and times when the M is put to the test. People fall in and out of love with each other. Individual growth comes when faced with extreme challenges. Not by running away from them.

My T said that we will likely argue our positions a lot in T and unless she lets some light in not get too far. Perhaps at some point down the line I might give her some of what she wants and agree to give her space and time alone. Agree on a time table (2, 3 months) and leave and let her experience life w/o me and all the responsibility. Something to give her the dose of reality she's not currently getting. But when I leave with the kids she stresses out and checks in every hour. When I went out alone to a reunion one night I was getting TXT messages begging me to come home and help her with the C who were crying and not sleeping. How can she be so sure about what she wants but then totally crumble when the going gets tough? W/o me there how can she expect it to get any easier?

This morning she suggested taking the kids to the aquarium this weekend with her sis, H, and 2 kids. Again, she wants us to do things together for the kids. I don't know what to think about it. Go and have fun with the boys or say no, I am too overwhelmed and confused with emotions that I don't think I should go?

This new T told me that her job is to help each of us achieve our goals. Oy. Our goals right now are different. What in the heck is she talking about? How is that going to happen?

Anyone wanna take a crack?

You there, Sandi??

Yes, she expects things to happen. Make them happen.



Yep, she's not attracted to you. She's bored.



She wants something to look forward to. It's important to plan things and make them fun and interesting.



Make yourself attractive to your wife. Lead.

Strength and Honor


Cheers
Coach

Thanks, Coach...

Well, unfortunately initiating anything physical is out of the question right now. She has distanced herself and we are only close around the kids. We are having trouble communicating, too. We keep things light and easy when we are together and avoid the tough talks because right now we have different goals.

I do plan things and try to make them fun for all of us. She doesn't say no, but at the same time it's not getting me anywhere. We have taken the kids to the zoo, swimming, etc. and it's fun, but that's all it is. She talked about going to the aquarium this weekend. Some have suggested I say no. Say something like, "You have made it clear that you want to get away from me, so I am not going to the aquarium b/c I am trying to give you what you want." She says we're good friends but she isn't acting like it.

Making myself attractive takes time. I don't know how much of that I have. It bothers me that she doesn't see how much I have changed. She acknowledged it in therapy, but she seemed to have a too little too late attitude about it.

But what is really eating at me is therapists. Our new MC told me this: I asked her how she deals with couples with opposing goals? I am sure it's common. She said she tries to help each person achieve his/her goal. My W's personal T probably has the same attitude because my W's goal is to destroy her family and she seems to be helping her do that.
That's what I don't understand about T. I haven't been a "bad" H. Not a drinker, not the partying type, not abusive, not a screamer, no drugs, no cheating, etc. I am guilty of being thoughtless at times. But I love my W and my twin boys more than anything -- I would walk through fire for them. How can a T meet a client and hear her say she wants to run from her M and actually SUPPORT that??? It's insane to me.

Last night she seemed like she's more distant again -- even a bit angry and frustrated. I made the most AMAZING thin crust, grandma-style pizza which she said she didn't want. She ordered Japanese but said I should make the pizza if I want it. I did. When it was done I cut her a piece and gave it to her and she ate it and said it was "good." We sat and had dinner and then she left to her room. I went to my room feeling tired and just thinking how lonely I felt in my own house with my family. I felt like an outsider...detatched in a way. It's a sickening feeling. I wanted to scream, "What the heck are we doing?!! This is so stupid! We are a family! We have two amazing kids! Let's stop acting like this!!!"

Do you think she feels the same way?

I laid down and fell asleep.

Let me share this passage from the book "How To Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It"

“Men have a hard time giving the reasons they value their wives, because their wives are the reason they value everything else. Women make it possible for their men to find enjoyment in watching sports, cooking, tinkering with the car, and hanging out with friends – plus, she gives meaning to his going to work every day. We can say with confidence to the majority of women reading this book that, without you, he would just go through the motions of life. Be very clear about this: In all likelihood, you provide the meaning of his life.”

This is attractive to a woman. She wants to know all about your day - especially tough things you deal with. Men want to forget about the BS while women need to know about your drama. They need to know that if things get tough then you can handle it. My wife told me she didn't think I was tough. I went to The Citadel, flew in Desert Storm, have started teams, manage my own practice and have three kids. I have dealt with adversity but since I didn't share it with her she didn't feel I was tough. I shielded her from my misery, it's not healthy in a marriage. When your wife feels she is part of why you do what you do then all your dreams will come true.