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mza8,

just saying hi, and lettign you know I'm still following along.

Haven't seen much of GM lately, have you?
Gr8

Been awhile so I figured I would update. Unfortunately not much new. Still have not heard from W. Last time I heard from her was two weeks ago by email regarding house update.

Still have not been able to find evidence of OM in the picture. My "sources" tell me no signs. I heard she is wearing a boot on her foot again. She broke her foot exercising back in December and had to wear a boot. Someone told me they saw her last week wearing the boot again. Guess she must have broken it again. Also found out that she is on vacation this week and all next week. Don't know where or who's she's with. I have a feeling she is either on vacation with her GF (they seems to do everything together) or her family. The GF that W hangs out with a lot is divorced and has her own issues. Funny because my W never used to like hanging out with her but now they are best buddies. Not a person who I believe is a good influence on W. I did find out that I was wrong about one thing I thought my W was not being truthful to me about. I confirmed (through my "sources") that she was being honest about it.

I'm not sure that the DBing is working. I have pretty much been dark for two months now. Ever since I sent flowers to W at the end of April I have left her alone except to answer her emails regarding house updates. She has made no attempt to contact me. I don't know what's going on anymore. No signs of OM, I've been dark and nothing from W. Very frustrating. Felt strange when I learned she is on vacation this week and next. Her last vacation was with me last September. I didn't expect her to tell me she was going on vacation these two weeks but it just reaffirms the big secrecy on her part. Guess she could care less about the house during this time or the dogs. Meaning, if something happened with either I would not know where to contact her. Oh well, probably just more of me being hurt because she is on vacation without me for the first time. Going to be a tough two weeks. I know she's be gone now for a long time but there's just something about knowing she is on vacation having a great time without me.

I feel like she is being so selfish. All of this cutting and running stuff. It's immature and selfish. I've taken this time apart to really think about what I could have done better, Yes, I think at this point I know what I should have done. It was no big mystery. Most of it was the financial support. Some other things as well and I realize those too. Nothing, I repeat, nothing that cannot be fixed.

So what to do now? She won't be back until 4th of July weekend. I know she'll have to contact me by mid July. That's when the current house contract expires with the agent and we would need to renew. I've been doing a lot of thinking about if I want to renew or not. I'll be moving back into the house soon. I think I am getting this new job. Things have just taken longer than anticipated but still moving forward.

I've been doing my thing. Living my life, etc. I found another time to go to gym so I don't run into W. I have completely left her alone. Not sure what else I can really do. I've kept my changes. Been very easy to do now that I "woke-up". I needed a swift kick in the a$$ and she gave it to me. I've done everything I said I was going to do...she just doesn't know it. How do I get her to know without it coming off as pursuit? The shock and awe of this is over for me and has been for some time now. I can now talk with W like adults and figure out if this is something we both want to work on or not. Problem is do I now ask her for this conversation or not? It's been 8 1/2 months now. She still hasn't told me HER specific reasons for leaving. I pretty much know why.

Friend of mine who has been separated from his W is now trying to get back together. She had an A in December. He got on with his life and told her he would not accept a M in which she was with OM. He did a good job of going NC with her. She came to him last week and wants to go to MC now and save the M. Sometimes I feel like if my W had OM it might be easier for us to try to reconcile. Bust the A and then get on to working on the M. Seems to pretty much be the way it goes. I am grateful that my sources still tell me there is no OM but it makes me scratch my head as to why she still cannot talk to me. I'm not sure I have seen another sitch here where the W has not talked to H for so long when there isn't OM in the picture? I do have a couple of friends who have gone this long and longer before their W talked to them. So I guess just hang in there and continue patience. I guess she is a true WAW? W, can we please, at some point, be mature about this and talk?

"Sometimes I feel like if my W had OM it might be easier for us to try to reconcile. Bust the A and then get on to working on the M. Seems to pretty much be the way it goes. "I am grateful that my sources still tell me there is no OM but it makes me scratch my head as to why she still cannot talk to me. I'm not sure I have seen another sitch here where the W has not talked to H for so long when there isn't OM in the picture?"

My wife and I still talk and are in the same house. I feel ya though. It has been 4 months now and we have made no progress. I am in the same boat and am almost thinking there HAS to be another man even though ALL of my sources tell me no. It is very frustrating

Barkley,

I don't have OM in my sitch, but wife still never returned. It's been over a year, we exchange children and things are very cordial, but nothing has changed in any direction. I have my own apt. and she is in the house, and things seem to be holding steady. I've wondered the same thing about the OM, if there was OM, maybe things would happen quicker, but alas, no one else. Frustrating!

I'm finding that I'm growing tired of the current situation, and ready to break everything up. No OW, nothing more than I'd like more out of my life, and the current circumstances aren't cutting it. There isn't any discomfort, just wanting something more. A month ago, I struggled with the whole question about selfishness. Was I being selfish for wanting out of the current situation, or was I being selfish for dragging my feet and prolonging a possible divorce. It's all been so complicated.

Frustrating thing is that a month and a half ago, we kissed, went out to dinner, looked like things were headed in a good direction, then everything fell apart. Not sure why or what sparked it, but it's all come back to the same old circumstances. I told her that I'm thankful for the good times that we had together, and if this comes to an end, I'll say goodbye with love, honor, and respect. I'm not bitter or angry, just willing to go on.

Not sure what her reaction to any of this is, but I'm not really watching any more. We've just grown apart, and I'm still very nice, just not watching every move, studying it, trying to analyze everything. I'm content with with a reconciliation or a divorce, and I wouldn't have made that statement if I didn't believe it.

Thanks Barkley. I've been following your sitch too. Yes, it is extremely frustrating especially when it appears there is no OM involved. Makes me wonder why a person wouldn't want to eventually talk?

I'm pretty sure I've reached the point that I'm going to send my W a letter to acknowledge my mistakes in the M. It seems as though some Ws want this from their H. The DBing sure isn't doing anything so maybe it's time to try something different. DBing is great but may not be the only way to go in all sitchs. I need to do something different. I won't pursue in the letter, just acknowledge my mistakes and let her know I am at a place that I am ready to talk whatever the end result.

Hey MZ,

Just wanted to let you know that I understand exactly how you are feeling. Limbo sucks and so does not knowing the answers to things! So many questions so little answers.

Just wanted to tell you to keep up the good fight and that I'm thinking of you. My D should be final now (just waiting to hear from the court) and XW is 1000 miles away living with OM. Not sure when and if she will see the light and I'm moving along with my life. She has been sending me e-mails about "financial" things and has also been making comments that let me know that she has been keeping up with me on Facebook so I guess that is something.

Will your W see your changes? If you think about all the "intel" you've been doing on her you wonder if she has been doing "intel" on you in the same way. She may or may not be but that is why we do the changes for us and it doesn't matter if she sees them or knows about them. It just makes us better people for ourselves and possibly someone else in our future. That could be your W or someone else. Obviously we all want it to be our spouse or we wouldn't be here but who knows what the future holds.

Just wanted you to know that I was still here and supporting you!

Thanks Ken. I'm so sorry to hear about your sitch. Maybe one day your W will realize what she's missing with you and come around. I can understand your W communicating about financials but it does seem strange she's following you on FB. Seems like most times the A doesn't last.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what to do next in my sitch? It doesn't seem like the DBing is having any effect...or is it? Don't get me wrong, it's great and all that, it helps us GAL and become better people. However, my main goal is and always has been to save my M.

Difficult to know if it's working or not. I guess I'm basing it on the fact that W has not contacted me other than for house updates. She hasn't done anything else towards D but she just might be waiting until the one year is up. Don't know if I should take that as a good sign or not? I feel like I'm on the clock trying to do whatever I can during this time. There have been small (very small) positive things over the past few months but not sure if it means anything or not?

I would love to think she checks up on me too. I'm not sure how she would go about that though? I do see her brother twice a week but we don't talk about W. I don't tell him much of my life either because I think it would look like I'm purposely trying to send information to W through him.

Everyone's sitch is different and different things work for different people. Some of my firends that have gone through the same sitch have either left their spouse alone or some have tried to write letters of apology and then try to talk. Both have had successes and failures. I've been leaving W alone for a long time now. I struggle with continuing to leave her alone or trying to reach out at some point? I don't know what to do anymore. I'm lost. I guess I would have an easier time of this if I knew there were legitimate reasons to D. However, the truth is there isn't. Sure, if I didn't change then I could understand it but I believe I have become everything and more of what W wanted from me in our M. If there was OM then I could understand it. I wouldn't like it but at least it would be a reason that gave some explanation.

I look back at my journal of when W and I met back in January to talk about dividing things. She was so angry. It was a "quiet" anger if that makes any sense. She was keeping calm but you could tell she held a lot of anger and resentment and probably hurt feelings. Her wall was way up that day. I stood my ground that day and it was tough to be that way to someone you love but I knew I needed to.

I think she's so afraid to talk to me. I think she's afraid I will talk her into something she's not ready for. This is all a guess on my part because I don't know for sure...she tells me nothing. You would think that I was the worst H in the world. I'd like to get her to go to C with me so maybe a neutral person might help bring this sitch back into reality. I think my W has convinced herself that our M was this awful thing and it certainly wasn't.

Anyway, I'm just rambling on again. Thanks again Ken for your support. I'm still trying to hang in there. Not sure if I should send her my letter of apology or not? Maybe she wants to hear this from me and what I have to say first?

Sandi, I haven't heard from you in awhile. I have a question for you if you don't mind. In your opinion is this normal that my W still has not talked to me about M in these 8 1/2 months? Could her resentment, anger, hurt feelings, still be so strong at this time? What should I do? Continue to wait and give her more time or reach out to her? What would you have wanted at this point in your sitch? Would you have wanted your H to sincerely apologize or would it have not made any difference in your mind at the time? Thanks and I hope you are well.

Hey, I haven't forgotten you but you were getting great help from the others.



When you can get to that stage of personal growth that it doesn't matter if she knows it or not.......then you will have truly succeeded in moving forward!

As long as you are emotionally looking back to see if she is looking back to see.......well, guess what she'll see?



What part isn't working? Are you divorced yet?



Perhaps she does.



LOL.......oh MZA! Now you try to try to figure out how she would check up on you?



See? You have learned!



Secretly you have worked at changing, hoping to win her back. When a person does that, and doesn't get the spouse back, then it leaves them feeling "lost". The purpose was not to win her back......it was to make you into a wonderful human being. But with every action you have wanted her to notice, and to be impressed.



Now let me tell you something.......and I think I read a post or two from a couple of other men suggesting it might be easier if there was OM! SHAME ON ALL OF YOU WHO THINK THAT! You think you are hurting now? You don't know hurt until your loved one has chosen another man to be physically or emotionally intimate with, instead of you. You do not want that! You think 8 1/2 months of her not talking about the MR is not right? Try throwing in infidelity and see what happens.



YES! I have known women who went through the rest of their lives feeling all of those things.



Follow the advice Guicci gave you.



I would have to guess at what I would have wanted, since I was not S from my H and my stitch was different. Based on what I've learned about human nature, I'd say I would have wanted him to have left me alone.

In my personal stitch, I would have appreciated an apology from him for the things he did that had caused major resentments over the years. But all he could focus on was my EA and he said he had done nothing wrong. He was expecting an apology from me. But that was my stitch.....not yours.

If I understand you, you are talking about sending her a letter of apology, right? Based on your statements about not knowing what to do next, I'm thinking that you are seeing a letter of apology as a strategy. Maybe not, but most everything you've done was trying to get her to come around.

I understand that you are frustrated, really I do. It may be two or three years before she'll want to talk to you. She may never give you the answer you are looking for. I know these months has been like eternity to you, but it really has not been that long when compared to a lifetime. I believe you had some very important relationship lessons to learn and frankly, I am not convinced they are permantly set. If your W came back today, I'd dare say you would be right back into your old habits in 6 wks. It's too easy to let that happen and you've not had enough "practice" time. Look at Soccer. How much does the team have to practice before they are ready for the real game? You've not really been tested yet. The real test will come when or if she does decide to tell you what the problems were.

Sandi, thank you for checking in. I was hoping you were still following. I have been getting great advice. I agree with the advice Gucci has been giving me and I'm following it.






Well...no. I wonder though if she's just waiting her mandatory year before she starts up the D talk again?






Yes and no...I know there were things I needed to change no matter what. I needed to get help with my depression, I needed to get a job. I have made personal growth changes too. I think what I would like my W to see is that I'm also trying to be a man who understands her, a man who listens, a man who shows strength, a man who loves her and shows it by actions.





Sandi, please know I wasn't making light of the situation of those dealing with infidelity. I meant no disrespect. I guess I was just trying to find logic in an illogical situation. I do hurt and it feels awful at times but I have no idea of the hurt those dealing with infidelity are dealing with and I'm so sorry they are going through it.





Thank you, it helps to know that she could still have these strong feelings.





I am. I agree with Gucci too





This helps, thank you Sandi. Yes, I was thinking of sending her a letter of apology. I thought that maybe she needed to hear this from me. About falling back to old ways...maybe I need more time but I can't imagine allowing myself to ever fall back into what brought me here in the first place. I wish my W would test me...give me that opportunity.

This is still hard, I'll be honest. I have good days and bad. I guess I haven't completely detached. However, to me, detachment seems to be talked about like it's a bad thing to still feel for your spouse. I want to have those feelings for my spouse, I don't want to turn them off. I just can't wrap my head around why a LBS has to let go of those feelings? Maybe that's my problem. I still love my W more than anything. I am proud of myself that I haven't fallen back into depression and instead I have charged ahead making many positive changes.

Thanks again Sandi, it's good to hear from you.

I mainly wanted to get the attention of those of you who thought it would be easier if there was OM in the picture. I knew you said that out of frustration. Just know that it wouldn't be easier, but much harder.



Detachment seems to be the hardest part for the LBS to grasp. Maybe we don't do a very good job explaining, but it's kind of hard to do. Try to think of it as a different way of thinking. It's not that you're being told to stop loving your W. That's not it at all. You've not been told to be mean or cold hearted toward her. You've been told to think with a different attitude in order to be a stronger person, right? You've been told how to behave in a better manner, right? Who told you to stop having feelings? As long as they are strong, positive, healthy emotions then who could object to that? You have been advised how to DB and what will make you a better person. We're hoping that you will be much more attractive to your W, but if she presists in wannting a D...you will be strong instead of co-dependent of her. Isn't that what you want? Surely you do not want to be in an unhealthy R with her.

How can I help you wrap this around your head better?