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EXACTLY..... That is why the "hanging in there" and hoping they come around seldom works. It just doesn't work. The hardest thing is convincing women and men to let go so that they improve their chances of reconciliation.

Nah. I buy the part about having to work for it. I don't buy that playing games is the way to get what you want. Never have, never will.

I never played my ex's games and he still seems to want to be with me, even though I've moved on. I was the one that did all the emotional work. So, nope, not buying.

Plus, if I have to play games, I'd rather stay single. Just not going to mess with someone's head, like I don't want anyone to mess with mine.

I do think a way to work at the relationship and make it more valuable to both partners can be achieved without the garbage of making them think you're with someone else. But it has to be done all along. Once I have to pretend to be dating someone else, I'm totally checked out.

I don't think it can BE a game. I think you really have to BE "checked out," or at least SIGNIFICANTLY detached, and out GALing, etc., so that the "mystique" and "aloofness" that you portray isn't a game or a technique, it's very REAL.

It's not game-playing; it's basic male-female human dynamics.

Puppy

Please show me how it is done. Your way seems to have put you into the position of a second relationship failure. I always find it interesting that the ones who are failing are always the ones who say they "don't want to play" games. I then read their threads and find out that they ARE playing games. "Being his friend" when you really want more,(which you hope will work to bring him back into the relationship and love you back) reading books to find out how to make it better, etc. etc. You are playing games. You just don't want to admit it. You ARE in the game whether you admit it or not.

I think it is playing games to try and be a friend when in truth it is a way to get them to fall back in love and into the relationship. If you have to play the game of being their friend to get them back then I believe that can be called "garbage" too.

DBing IS playing games in combination with improving yourself.
But the games turn into real changes over time.

If you don't want to play games then you can't DB.

I wasn't playing games, I was finding a way to be happy on my own. I faked it 'til I made it, and when H decided to reconcile, I really was on the brink of completely moving on. If he hadn't decided to recommit then, I'm not sure I would have agreed to reconcile later on.

Did I put it in his face? Darn right I did, and that was mostly out of my own anger with him. You see, he'd NEVER opened his mouth about anything, always told me everything was okay when I asked him if choices XYZ were okay with him, and SECRETLY it wasn't. When he dropped the bomb and seemed so certain we couldn't work it out (and we'd never tried to), it killed me. I'm thankful for it now, but I was ticked.

Add to that he was pursuing this woman who, though she didn't return his feelings, totally fed off of the attention. I'd found love letters he was composing to her gushing about his feelings. I saw him saying and doing things that were his courting style. So I decided that if he thought I might have my own life that included other men who found me attractive, GOOD.

I should add that we were also in MC this whole time. I basically shut up and listened to all his complaints for the first 3 months and helped correct some of the mind reading he'd been doing. It wasn't until later that I brought up my own issues...he wouldn't have been able to hear them.

We are still together and have a much better R that we're constantly working on. I bring up issues directly now instead of letting them fester, worried about how he'll react. H is doing a better job of speaking up too. We treat each other with respect, and we feel comfortable looking at each other and saying, hey, I need you to carry the load for a little while; I just can't do it.

SD

these things seem to only work when you are still living together. when you are seperated and one person files, then what do you do? how do you make them 'fight' for you when they desperately want to get rid of you???

Ooh, yes, someone who resorts to ad hominem attacks is the ultimate catch. Someone who can't make a logical argument without ad hominems is the icon I look for in a man. FTR, that was sarcasm, and I won't waste my time explaining the rest. I would rather spend the time on someone who honestly wants to learn and also to help, rather than to go on the offensive to try to win a game without a prize.

DBing is to playing games as applying boundaries is to manipulation.

Oh, I see. It wasn't about making him think you had another man, but that others found you attractive. Do I have that right? I'm sorry if I was wrong on that point. I thought that because of the phone call, you were wanting him to think you were actually dating someone else.

However, at the point of separation, I have very little issue with dating, but pretending to date, yeah, that would be a problem for me.

I did think about this more, and one does need to weigh out their comfort level with such things. For example, I was brought up to think that divorce was one of the cardinal sins. Well, I still believe that it is horribly damaging. My choice was whether or not to stay in an abusive situation that was costing me my individuality and much effort I could be putting toward my children or to divorce. Both were certainly unpalatable and mutually exclusive. I had a difficult choice to make.

Sometimes, one is put in the position of choosing one unethical thing or another, and I respect anyone who can do so and come through with a shred of sanity. It actually sounds like a job well-done on your part.

They [sometimes] work in the way of reconciliation, but at that point, the focus is on doing what is right for yourself.

Contribute to the relationship when the partner is, otherwise, you don't have a partnership at all. It's like playing tennis when the other person refuses to return the ball. The ball is in the other person's court. What do you do? Wait. What do you do while you wait? Take care of yourself.