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Red flag... This is what WS's do when still in an affair..

She uses mom for her cover... Can't she use her moms phone to call OM?


I highly doubt she is done with the OM. She is going underground right now because she knows you are watching her like a hawk. She doesn't seem to be hurting very much which is a good sign that the OM is very much still in the picture. Don't believe her.

I would say you are doing quite well, but I do have to agree with Gucci there too.

Trust, but verify.
Greek

Well pretty damn hard to verify right now - with the cell phone blocked with all of his numbers, and off FB and I've seen no emails whatsoever,add that to no reaction to the block yet - adds up to stay low profile for now. Sure she can call from work, moms, friends whatever - but short of either following her or a PI - well life's just to damn short to worry about it!

The way I look at it is that 1 of 2 things happen:

A. She leaves, we get divorced and lose a boatload of cash and assets, I have to start over, but I'll be looking good and feeling great about myself.

or:

B: We go to MC, reconcile over a period of time and start a new relationship with each other, regardless I have to start over, but I'll be looking good and feeling great about myself.

Greek said, "trust, but verify".

Dave, would you say your wife FEELS trusted? If not, this might be the biggest 180. To let her feel the trust while you keep an eye over your shoulder.

OTMT-

Yes I get your point - she is testing me pretty hard - she's been texting the hell out of our neighbor now, there's nothing there and he's moving with his daughter next week - she said to me that she thinks I'm still checking her text messages online (which I do infrequently) but she's waiting to see if I'll call her out on that him next - again trust and control to throw back at me - but I'm a bit smarter than the average bear at times.

The next big trust issue I'm giving her is a huge one- I came into a fairly large amount of cash recently and am waiting on the check 5 figures - I told her I was depositing it ALL into her checking account. The dialog will go like this: I trust you with my life, I trust you with our children's lives, I trust you with everything WE have and this money is just another thing we have.

She can take it and run, pay her bills, our bills or whatever she wants - it's completely her call - it's only money and I always make money - it's not an issue.

That will be a huge 180 for me and I can't wait to see what she does!

That's great!

What about when you feel suspicious...is there something you can do? Maybe ask her to tell you if she feels you're trapped in the old habit - remind her you've forgiven her, even though it hurt like ....(insert metaphore or hyperbole)

Commitment, trust, forgiveness, love... 4 cornerstones of a marriage.

OTMT-

I'm kinda stuck at this stage with suspicions - it's too early yet to tell her I forgive her for the EA, she still doesn't truly believe that she did anything wrong, sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't. So I really think telling her that I forgive her will cause two things - imply a high level of pursuit and and also open the door for an argument that she didn't do anything wrong - I think I'll let it play out for a while and throw the forgiveness out there when and if I get some more positive feedback on the 180's and GAL's?

Gucci thanks for the tips - but her mother had scheduled eye surgery and we all knew that she needed to take care of her since she was going to be pretty much blind for a couple of days - I can't really flag that one I think!

If I understood right Dave, she had an EA. I've read that it is very hard on spouses in your situation, but that might be why she sees it as small.

When love has returned along with commitment, maybe then would be the better time to decide how wrong it was. The important thing is that as far as you know, it is over for good.

She's already returned, so pursuit wouldn't be how I would see it. An apology, forgiveness, those need to happen when they are genuine. Actions first, words second. But without them, isn't the other always wondering if they should've not returned.

I'm telling you that as a slowly recovering porn addict. I didn't think I was addicted, but in divorce mediation it came out. Our biggest problem (and mine toward recovery) is that I wonder if I can stay with someone who is always judgmental of me and making me feel depressed and guilty. While I do have many reasons, such as my first exposure at age 9 (not my choice!), those excuses only hold weight when I'm defending myself. When my W is attacking, I am not listening - I'm defending.

Forgiving is NOT accepting the wrong, it is accepting the person who did the wrong. Even if she feels "justified" because the R was trashed anyhow, that will not change because you withold forgivness.

Tristan's sitch comes to mind...he and his wife are doing well, but he did have to get over his feelings against her. She had to accept that the M could be BETTER than before despite the prob.

Would you classify yourself or your wife as stubborn? If so, she could also be holding off accepting her sin because she doesn't want the "I told you so" or the feeling of losing control. Since telling my W, she has made all of my efforts seem trivial. She has tried to police me despite my assertation that I am trying and that I have never gone beyond $80 and looking in 20 years of that garbage. That has only made my desires for porn worse, not better.

Who wants to be in a R with one-way conditions? Admittingly, some agreements must be made such as my stopping and your W not contacting him. But agreements accept a certain level of initial failure as long as the intent is honest.

Right now, because I have given up on trying to get her to commit to our marriage, I am planning to move out for 30 days. I told her the purpose was to have HER decide if she wants to really accept me or not. She's asked for a separation or divorce 14 times since January only to say afterward that she couldn't imagine us ever divorced (I started the D talk in Oct making me the WAH in a way).

In that time I have made many changes, some of which I have backslid on. But the biggest change was that I came to love her for the first time (not kidding) in 12 years. So my porn use was partly fueled by our bad, bad relationship. While just one more excuse for the behaviour I have always felt and believed was wrong and sinful, she needs to acknoweldge her responsibility as well in making a R toxic enough that I let myself slide from a problem to an addiction. What was worse is that by being open with her if I use it, she only gets angier and makes our R toxic again to me. I'm sure it is bad to her as well, but that won't get me to where she wants me to be.

So...after that blurb...I'm really trying to say:
- Forgive her, not accept the sin
- Show in action, not just words
- Expect her to be honest always and open.
- Help her build her "love bank" for you. The higher it is, the more she'll be happy to be with you instead and the OM will be a bad (not good) memory.


Keep doing what you are doing, just look for the 'toxic' parts and deal with them.