Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers So where are we now?

Thank you sandi2 - I know now that no matter what happens, I'll always continue to improve myself, and looking back....well, I never really was that person who drank and was a jerk. I was depressed, which led to drinking, which led to other things. Most of our marriage I've been very cool and we've gotten along great, been in love, etc....I'm more like the real 'me' now than I have been since I was 20 and a starving artist in California.
Hard to explain. Hard to imagine that I acted that way for years to the woman I love above all others. The change in me is incredible and everyone around me notices and has said so...even my W.

Yeah - who knows about the gay thing, I sure don't....it's been very weird for me, and at one time she said he had dated women in the past. I've checked in on him, months ago, a couple of times, and he's gay. I'm not sure but I thought perhaps she just like the 'feelings' of his attention, his concern for her, etc....he knows our entire situation she told me, and i've seen some texts he wrote her....he's like a support person, a friend who says just the right thing at the right time when she needs to vent about me and our problems. He's pushed for her to stay with the family, praised her concern and love for our kids, etc. When she asked about the open marriage, I said 'he's gay! WTF?' and she would say 'yes i know...but what i'm saying is i don't want to RULE OUT the chance of sex happening if i go visit him' so i don't know...maybe she was planning on 'trying'....maybe she wasn't convinced he was gay...who knows.

I agree - I was NOT acting very attractive then...or sexy...or anything...it wasn't me, it was like another person had taken over me. I've always been stronger than that, my whole life (i'm 42). I've always been able to control myself, but I sure didn't then - looking back, it's embarrassing and I'm ashamed of acting that way in front of her.
I only considered the open marriage, I guess, to keep her around...to have her with me in SOME sort of capacity because I figured since I had done the damage, and could lose her altogether, that i'd take anything she would give me, but I kept loosing it....just thinking about her with another man....it just about killed me. It's difficult and I can't explain why I didn't just LEAVE...I probably knew in my heart that it would never 'really' happen with him....and so far it hasn't. I'm so much stronger now, if she were to bring it up again I wouldn't agree to it. After all the work I've done, if it came up again I'd feel like none of it has mattered so far .....and would probably give up and just leave.

Well, I spied so much that every time I looked I would find something, which would cause me to break down and cry, hurt, etc., and it would end up being nothing or have a simple explanation (that I would discover later in more spying). One issue my whole life was always trust - so I decided that I wasn't going to spy again, ever, and if she was doing something wrong then it would come out eventually, and that would be the end of the marriage. I know there's no grass greener than mine right now, at this age, so if she finds it and runs off then so be it. I want her happy above all other things, no matter what the final outcome is.
We've always loved each other, been through a lot together, and I was the one who hurt her so I'm going to be the one to wait things out and give HER a timeline and a choice, if that makes sense.
Thanks for talking to me, I appreciate it! :-)

UPDATE; We got into a little tiff a while ago, first one in weeks.....I asked about her online class she's been in all week, how she was doing, I was making dinner and she was hanging around the kitchen talking to me about this and that....I kept asking questions about how her class was going, was she learning, was she going to go back over the information, etc. (it's an online class) and finally she got mad that I was asking so many questions. I was only trying to talk, trying drum up conversation, and she said it wasn't sincere and they questions started to get empty....that I was only asking because I 'thought i needed to' and that 'if i was going to make this work' i had to just accept what she said and quit asking questions that don't make sense....in hindsight, i did ask too many questions and the last few didn't make much sense, she saw right through me...i was tired and had WAY too much coffee so i was just rattling on. She said 'you never gave a crap before' etc. This is the first time in weeks she's said anything like that, especially about the past and how I use to behave. This told me that the anger and resentment are still there and will surface again. I didn't argue, just stood my ground and told her I WAS sincere and was truly interested in what she was doing.
I left the room and that was that.
It's a roller coaster. I'll leave her alone this weekend and let her think I guess.

I hope you realize by now that you deserve so much better and do not ever just "settle", okay? You sound really, really great.

A W, as well as a H, can see through us when we are trying too hard, can't they? From the VP of the WAW, I'd say to not say so much in the conversation department, and let her "lead" with it. That way, you can feel out the mood a lot better. But when she does say something, always look her right in the eyes when she speaks. That is important to a woman.

So she must have been pulled emotionally into that A with the gay guy and somewhere along the way thought that he would feel the same way toward her. Women are all about emotions/feelings and it can get real tricky at times. But sooner or later she will realize that she wants a real man for a lover and not a girlfriend! You will be that man. She must respect you for all the changes you've made. It will take her time to get through this, however.

Just continue to do what you are doing. Think of yourself as a strong, sexy man. I often tell LBH's not to act like some tired old husband who has forgotten how to act all cool and sexy (lol). Since the two of you use to be so hot for each other, I'll bet it will just be a matter of time before you'll start seeing some positive moves in her.

sandi2 - thanks for taking the time to reply, it really helps.

I appreciate everything you've said, and at this point will just see what happens. Your advice is awesome :-)

I picked up the book, it was Divorce Remedy, not the other one...book store had it wrong. STILL though, just what I needed at this point and last night I read 3/4 of it. What an eye opener!
I hope I can help others who might be early in the same situation, keep them from making the same mistakes I made.

I'll keep you posted -
Many thanks!

I think Divorce Remedy is the updated version.

THE LATEST:
The last few weeks things have bee looking up for us, or at least I thought so and she was acting like they were.
She actually wrote 'Have a Super Day, I love you!!'
in an email, something I thought I'd never see again.
Anyway;
We sent our kids to a relatives farm up north for two weeks for some summer fun, and I took my wife out to dinner one evening afterward. It was nice, like friends, nothing heavy and I was a gentleman. We've had some good hugs the last week, little kisses, etc. just like things have been moving along lately.
I've read Divorce Remedy like three times and had been applying things to every move I mad and every thing I said lately. She acted like she would open her heart a little, then back off. Happened more than once the last month or two.
Wife seemed a bit distant a couple of days last week after kids left. I know she still carries hurt and anger around from my past behavior so I gave her room, didn't push anything. We were friendly to each other and it's been nice around here.
Wednesday I got up early for work, and she was up early too, with me. We st and had coffee together, and a nice funny conversation and seemed like a wonderful morning. As I was leaving for work she gave me one of the best over-the-shoulder hugs I've had in a while from her, and a couple of kisses which was unusual. Second hug and kiss. I was on top of the world all morning. I assumed that she was opening up a little, again, and it felt great.
Met a gallery owner that afternoon about showing my work, had coffee...
Came home to find she was GONE and left a note on the dining room table. Packed some stuff of hers, and went to her dad's in Florida. I was floored.
It said she couldn't love me like she use to because of the hurt I caused, that she just couldn't get over it, etc. and that she was sorry and it was great how much I'd changed, and other things.
I was and still am devastated because I thought things were progressing much better between us than they had EVER.

I didn't do what I would have done in the past - chased her.
I didn't text, email, nothing. I ended up emailing all of MY family and telling them what had happened, and to not think bad of her, etc. and I BCCed her on that email, not sure why I did that...maybe to tell her I wasn't angry, but hurt.
I downloaded and read 'how to survive your wife's midlife crisis' this morning after not sleeping all night, and I would SWEAR it was written about her personallyand the way she has been acting this year. Every symptom, every behavior. My neglect last year and hurting her is a perfect reason in her mind for her to run.
Anyway I used the book skills of no chasing, no contact, last resort technique which is NOT how I've acted in the past when she threatened to leave...but I gave in earlier today (wrong I know) and texted her 'can i call you and talk a minute?'
I wanted to find out what was going to happen to the kids.
I emailed her a little later, telling her I had to let her go and I had to move on, that this was her choice and she's free to do that now, I respect and agree with it and I'm happy for her, etc which is completely 180 for me.
Later this morning she texted me back - first time I had heard from her since wednesday;
'I am sorry. I feel bad. Give me a couple of days 2 think. I'll call you Sunday night ok?'
This is NOT like anything she's said to me for a long time.
I can tell she's hurting like hell just by this text. I don't expect her though, to come back and I'm trying to still move forward.
Was running away a test? Is she just feeling guilty because of the kids?
Did she realize what she's done and is regretting now?
I just said 'take all the time you need'.

Most of yesterday and today I've been acting 'as-if' I'm going to be single and she's not coming back. I've decided not to contact her at all, but let her contact me and it's been the most painful thing a person can imagine. I feel strong but very very hurt. I want to be angry but can't get it to come out.
Am I saying and doing the correct thing here?
Any advice?

I spent a painful, painful last few days in an empty house...trying to keep busy, trying to 'as-if' and trying to keep my chin up.

I read Divorce Remedy again, How to Survive Your Wife's Midlife Crisis, and a book called Getting Back Together.
They've helped tremendously in understanding what's going on here and what steps I should be taking during it all.

She called last night, first time I talked to her since she left. There was no pressure, no anger, no blaming. She didn't sound like she was doing well, very unsure and hurt...confused almost. She said she didn't know what she wanted to do yet, but I was convinced after reading her note Wednesday that she had her mind made up. She hadn't unpacked the car yet.

I listened and was supportive, and was 180 from the way I would have reacted a year ago to something like this. I told her I was still here, I offered my support, and told her how much I trusted her ability to make the right choices for herself. I told her I cared deeply, would help any way I could, and just wanted her to be happy no matter what...and for once I meant it.

She's been trying to get her career going for a long time, but job hunting and training herself at home has been stressful on her...on top of everything else that's happened to us the last 8 months, my drinking last year...hurting her and neglecting her emotional needs, etc.

After reading 'How to Survive You Wife's Midlife Crisis' I am convinced 100% that this is what she's going through. I've seen every behavior and symptom listed in this book since this time last year, except for buying a car and getting a boob job. On top of it, the stress and emotional hurt I've caused is still weighing heavily on her.

Anyway I wrote her an heartfelt email of love and support this morning, sent it to her, and decided not to contact her again this week. Pressuring her would be the worst thing I could do right now. I believe this separation now to be a good thing. I'm continually working on myself and remaining strong, but still struggling a bit. God and the Universe give me patience and strength.

This:

IS PRESSURING


Why?

I agree, in hindsight is was pressuring her...things have been up and down since then. For a few days she would text me, and add at the end of each one. Then, a few days with no contact. We had one conversation where I told her how much she hurt me, and the kids...emailed her later and told I didn't mean to put a guilt trip on her about the kids and such.

Few days again with no contact.

The most recent events have been a phone call yesterday(monday) where she told me she had a 2nd interview with a company down there. My heart just dropped but didn't show it, I just told her I wished her the best, keep me posted, and I want her to be happy. No chasing, nothing. I've been busy GAL and started a Facebook fan site for my art the last couple of weeks. I ended the phone call with take 'care and keep me posted on the job thing.'

Later in the evening, called her and told her we needed to discuss what to do with the kids, house, pets etc. in my attempt to show her that there are consequences to decisions people make, if staying down there is her decision. She replied that she wasn't sure WHAT she was going to do yet which I'm guessing is based on whether or not that company makes her an offer.

I decided that if she wasn't coming back with the kids, I'd put her stuff in storage and send her a key so she could get it whenever she wanted, move my son and I to an apt. and get rid of the house. Daughter heading to college in Sept so I'd keep house until then. The house is too big for just son and I, and I don't like living here anyway so I mentioned an apt. with a pool, etc.

She got a little annoyed, said that I should keep the house so that daughter would have a place to come back to from college, etc. son would be in same school district, etc.

I got a little angry and reminded her that she left, and it was her decision to leave us, and I have decisions now to make of my own. She said 'I left YOU, I didn't leave the kids'
I mean, she DID leave the kids because eventually they'll come back here to their own home after their summer traveling...WITHOUT THEIR MOTHER if she ends up staying where she's at, right?

Eventually she blurted out 'well then i'm just going to come back with them...i'll just come back and be angry' or something like that. She also said she feels like i'm blackmailing her now, and I tried to explain that i wasn't and that coming back here was entirely her choice, not mine. I didn't beg, suggest her coming home, or ask her to come home. Another thing I said was "Look I'm not trying to upset you or argue, but only brought this up to let you know ahead of time what I'm going to do if you stay down there." I was calm, clear, and spoke as-if I didn't care if she came back or not.

Anyway the kids are arriving down there this evening to spend some time with her at the beach and visit relatives. They have to come back before July 1st. She also mentioned that she wasn't sure how she'd get all of her stuff AND the kids stuff back here in one car. I feel like she's confused and I'm accepting at this point, that she'll either come back home with them...or send them home alone which will devastate them and I know she doesn't want to do that. She acted really unsettled about my getting rid of the house, which surprised me.
All I was trying to do was show her some accountability and consequences for her decision to leave the way she did.
I felt confident, strong, and even though the conversation wasn't all pleasant, it might have opened her eyes. Don't know.
Using whatever I have to get her back home I guess.
She could still take that job and not come back, but now she knows what'll happen. I doubt if she'll talk the kids into staying there, I mean they have lives here and she spoke like she hasn't unpacked her car yet.
Patiently waiting to see what happens next.

one more thing to add:
The couple of months before she left, we had begun to get along really well...better than we had in many years. Looked like things might be heading in the right direction. She was in a mentally taxing online class the week before she left, and had been REALLY stressed about her career and job hunting. I knew she needed a break and would probably go visit relatives south for a few weeks with the kids, which we did every year in summer.
I read 'how to survive your wifes midlife crisis' and her pattern of behavior fits exactly...from telling me I love you, to acting sweet one day and distant the next, to suddenly running without thinking of the consequences. She's like a completely different person right now, totally indecisive, lost, confused. I'm not making excuses for her, just trying to figure out what's best to not push her away further. I'm wondering if she came back home, what suddenly being back here around the memories, the home, etc. that she'd made up her mind to leave...what that would do to her?
When the kids arrive today to see her...will that make it hit home for her? Nothing? Trigger something? Help her move to the next MLC stage? I read in Divorce Remedy something about guilt or anything to bring WAW home is at least something to help on my behalf....not sure how it was worded.
I mean, she ran to a place where there are no reminders of this house, me, our marriage, the kids, nothing. She would have a new job, new place, and in a new environment.
Seems like the ideal way to escape for her huh?

I just wanted her to see the consequences, and know what my decision was going to be if she stayed. I NEVER expected her to suddenly change her mind to 'I'm coming back with the kids' and I'm aware that could change again.
What's painful is that I know she loves me, and I know she'll pass through this someday and might realize it.

my therapist just said some things to me that stuck:

"sounds like she wants it both ways....her freedom and independence, and at the same time keeping the security of the home" and
"she sounds a bit confused about her decision to leave, and that you bringing up the house and kids has made everything real for her"

she also suggested marriage therapy IF she ends up returning with the kids. I'm feeling that if we get into therapy, get some of this bottled up stuff out, that it might help our relationship. I mean, it looked like things were going well until she ran. They were FAR FAR FAR better than 6 months or a year ago, and that was WITHOUT a counselor of any kind...it was simply ME changing MY behavior and working on the dynamics of our relationship.