The wife went out Saturday night after going out to dinner with me and the kids on Friday. She was with 8 other women (all of whom I know. They got a hotel room and hit the bars for her birthday (been planning for several months). Of course I was home with our 3 kids, cleaned the house, did the laundry, etc.,etc.. She called several times Saturday night to check on us and see what we were doing. In any event, she seems to be coming around emotionally, the problem is that I can barely stand to look her in the face. Not sure how to handle the anger/resentment I am developing.
M: 39 W: 39 Kids (3): S10; S8; D4 Married 14 years Togethor: 18 years Wife's Weird Behavior Started: 2nd Half of 2009 Bomb Dropped (about being "so done"): 2/17/10 Current Status: In counseling
What would be appropriate consequences for your W's behavior? As long as she she doesn't suffer anything then she is not going to change just to be a good mother & wife! And....the longer she gets by with acting like this, the harder it will be to enforce boundaries.
Have you read Coach's thread on boundaries?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The wife went out Saturday night after going out to dinner with me and the kids on Friday. She was with 8 other women (all of whom I know. They got a hotel room and hit the bars for her birthday (been planning for several months). Of course I was home with our 3 kids, cleaned the house, did the laundry, etc.,etc.. She called several times Saturday night to check on us and see what we were doing. In any event, she seems to be coming around emotionally, the problem is that I can barely stand to look her in the face. Not sure how to handle the anger/resentment I am developing.
What "kind" of women did she go out with? Marrieds? Singles? Cheating-marrieds?
What would be appropriate consequences for your W's behavior? As long as she she doesn't suffer anything then she is not going to change just to be a good mother & wife! And....the longer she gets by with acting like this, the harder it will be to enforce boundaries.
Have you read Coach's thread on boundaries?
Being a "good wife", is being a "better mother". Its about the example one sets for their children. Do you want your son to be with men who treat them like you treat the dad? The same rules apply if you flip the roles.
OK.....BAAAAD counseling session yesterday. Apparently, her feelings have not changed in the last 3 months since I have made the changes in my life. She has been unable to "forgive me" in her heart yet and is frustrated and still trying. I am now 100% convinced there is no affair going on (let's just say I have my reasons). In any event, yesterday's session prompted this e-mail exchange (starting from me to her):
From: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:29 PM To: Subject: Today
XXX,
The kids and I love you very much. We all want you to be happy! In the 18 years we have been together, I have known you to be nothing but a sweet wonderful person. Lean on me. Talk to me. I am here for you!.
I have tried to make changes in my personal life to help and will continue to do such. I am fully committed! What else do you need me to do?
Over the last year, I think you have tried many things hoping that they would make you happy (the boob job, new car, more money, going out with friends and partying, etc., etc.). Unfortunately, they have only helped for a short period of time; and you are still unhappy. These "things" have not been the answer and never will be; so there must be something else i.e. (depression, midlife crisis or something from childhood).
Millions of people suffer from depression. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Would it not be worth seeking therapy or medication NOW? Remember my OCD. I could not think clearly or logically and it took every ounce of will that I had to even get out of bed in the morning. Everything I have read and seen says "if you suffer from depression (wanting to curl up and die) for more than 3 weeks, you should seek proffesional help". Depression is a chemical imbalance that can be helped with medication and therapy. Why not give it a try?
Life is really hard sometimes. We are so lucky to have 3 wonderful healthy children. The harder we look for happiness in this materialistic world, the further away such becomes.
Again, I love you and want to do all to help, however, I am also human with limitations. In fact, I am also “numb” right now. The constant going out and partying has me somewhat emotionally detached from you with the “feeling” of love not there. All of that said, when we stood on that altar together 14 years ago, I committed myself to GOD and to you to make this marriage work. I intend to do everything in my power to make that happen.
(Her Response)
From: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:47 AM To: Subject: RE: Today
You are doing good and with counseling I think we are doing all that we can and with time hopefully things will get better.
I honestly do not think I have a problem with depression…I have never felt I didn’t want to get out of bed. I had 3 separate days of deep depression and I do think it was from this situation…I’m not going to go through this joyfully. So, I think you have it backwards.
Not sure why you are bringing up more money because I didn’t seek that…I was seeking a job with equal pay, but I thought would be rewarding spiritually as well because it was a Catholic School. If you are saying choosing to stay at Awty because of the large increase in pay was me seeking a material happiness is a shock to me. I got the others because I was financially able to do so and it was something I always wanted.
I know you are taking responsibility for your actions but at the same time you are trying to shift the blame to depression or a midlife crisis and I truly believe this is wrong. I guess it’s hard for you to believe your actions caused this or else you wouldn’t have done it, but I’m telling you they did and in regards to forgiveness I continually forgave you for 10 years and maybe a person reaches a point they can’t do it anymore. I don’t want you to think I’ve given up…I’m just as frustrated because of course I want to keep our family together and I’m just hoping we can reverse the damage that has been done on the inside.
(From me back to her)
Ok
It’s just such a shock to me that you were so unhappy for so long without letting me know how serious it was
When I think about forgiveness, I think it is something that you give to people who PURPOSELY harm you, not to those who were just plain ignorant and stupid (like me)
I am very sorry that I hurt you over the years, but had I known the seriousness of my actions, I would have stopped in a heartbeat, that is what is so frustrating for me about your feelings. You said yourself that you know it was not purposely to harm you. I just can’t get this straight in my head
I see all the bad husbands out there who are:
1) Purposely hurtful to their wives and families, verbally or physically 2) Cheaters 3) Can’t hold down a job or won’t support their families 4) Out all the time
I was none of these things and in my mind, I just thought “ok, I drink too much sometimes and need to help out more – she is angry right now and I will try and do better”
I can’t change the past…..all I can do is move forward and I am sorry I hurt you all of those years
(Her Response)
And I think you must understand me…I’m unlike most wives…I forgave you time and time again…most wives would have been raging bitches and not put up with it in the first place and in fact probably the reason I did was because of the rough family life I had as a child so it wasn’t as shocking. Laura and I were actually talking about that this morning (nothing against you…she more than anything wants us to work it out and is totally supporting me in that direction). I guess we were talking about when I was younger and I said how violent my dad was and she never knew this and she said that is probably what made me accept your anger outburst, because to her she had never experienced this and she said the first time she saw you get mad and throw the remote she was like oh my gosh we need to call the police this guy is a lunatic. Do you get what I’m saying?
I used to believe a person can choose to be happy or dwell on the negative and I remember telling your mom this several years ago. But, I think the truth is you can’t hold in the unhappy feelings forever.
(Me back to her)
Anger?…..I never even knew that was an issue. Now I know about that too
I am truly sorry and am doing everything I can to rectify the situation
(Her Response)
Yea, it’s great to be around…
I know…
I would really like to get ya'll's take on this.....especially a women's
M: 39 W: 39 Kids (3): S10; S8; D4 Married 14 years Togethor: 18 years Wife's Weird Behavior Started: 2nd Half of 2009 Bomb Dropped (about being "so done"): 2/17/10 Current Status: In counseling
M: 39 W: 39 Kids (3): S10; S8; D4 Married 14 years Togethor: 18 years Wife's Weird Behavior Started: 2nd Half of 2009 Bomb Dropped (about being "so done"): 2/17/10 Current Status: In counseling
Take this with a grain of salt as I am far from being an expert. Just a few things that stuck out.
Quote:
Millions of people suffer from depression. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Would it not be worth seeking therapy or medication NOW? Remember my OCD. I could not think clearly or logically and it took every ounce of will that I had to even get out of bed in the morning. Everything I have read and seen says "if you suffer from depression (wanting to curl up and die) for more than 3 weeks, you should seek professional help". Depression is a chemical imbalance that can be helped with medication and therapy. Why not give it a try?
And her answer:
Quote:
I honestly do not think I have a problem with depression…I have never felt I didn’t want to get out of bed. I had 3 separate days of deep depression and I do think it was from this situation…I’m not going to go through this joyfully. So, I think you have it backwards.
Mind reading. I know you're searching for answers, but this never works.
You:
Quote:
Life is really hard sometimes. We are so lucky to have 3 wonderful healthy children. The harder we look for happiness in this materialistic world, the further away such becomes.
Her:
Quote:
Not sure why you are bringing up more money because I didn’t seek that…I was seeking a job with equal pay, but I thought would be rewarding spiritually as well because it was a Catholic School. If you are saying choosing to stay at Awty because of the large increase in pay was me seeking a material happiness is a shock to me. I got the others because I was financially able to do so and it was something I always wanted.
Same thing. Stop doing it.
Quote:
I know you are taking responsibility for your actions but at the same time you are trying to shift the blame to depression or a midlife crisis and I truly believe this is wrong. I guess it’s hard for you to believe your actions caused this or else you wouldn’t have done it, but I’m telling you they did and in regards to forgiveness I continually forgave you for 10 years and maybe a person reaches a point they can’t do it anymore. I don’t want you to think I’ve given up…I’m just as frustrated because of course I want to keep our family together and I’m just hoping we can reverse the damage that has been done on the inside.
These are her feelings. Right or wrong, in your eyes, they are hers and she can feel however she wants. You have said you are sorry enough. She knows it. Don't tell her again. She also knows that you are trying and it obviously pisses her off. Maybe she thinks it is all fake and you will revert to your old self. Continue to improve yourself and don't look to her to validate. She won't right now. Hell, at least she says she want to keep the family together. Give her space and time and no pressure. And, no more e-mails like this! It is pressure to her. All has been said that needs to be. She knows. You know. You will have to do the heavy lifting for the time being. Do it with a gladly with a smile on your face. If she is serious about keeping the family together, she will, eventually soften her heart if your changes are real and permanent.
A few things stand out to me ... so here's my 'woman's opinion' that you asked for ...
Originally Posted By: Barkley
The kids and I love you very much. We all want you to be happy!
Are you in a place where you truly love her unconditionally. Think about that long and hard ... unconditional love means loving her without expectations and regardless of what she does or when she does it. Make sure you're not thinking something along the lines of 'I love you but will only continue to love you if you do things my way...'
Originally Posted By: Barkley
Over the last year, I think you have tried many things hoping that they would make you happy (the boob job, new car, more money, going out with friends and partying, etc., etc.). Unfortunately, they have only helped for a short period of time; and you are still unhappy. These "things" have not been the answer and never will be; so there must be something else i.e. (depression, midlife crisis or something from childhood).
This is mindreading and diagnosis only a doctor or therapist can make. Don't do this. If it is a MLC you definitely don't want to bring it up to her!
Originally Posted By: Barkley
Your W: I guess it’s hard for you to believe your actions caused this or else you wouldn’t have done it, but I’m telling you they did
Believe her. This hurts, it might not make sense to you right now but you need to believe her. Do not defend yourself, do not argue with her ... you need to commit the following phrases to memory "I'm sorry you feel that way", "I need to think about that", "It must hurt to feel that way" (these aren't mine by the way, I'm stealing from a vet's post but can't remember who to give credit to!)
Originally Posted By: Barkley
I am very sorry that I hurt you over the years, but had I known the seriousness of my actions, I would have stopped in a heartbeat, that is what is so frustrating for me about your feelings.
Hurt is hurt. Stop saying "I'm sorry BUT" ... I know where you are coming from (I really do - check out my sitch) but all this says/does is transfer the blame to her and downplay the hurt she has felt.
There are a couple of things that stick out to me ...
1. Let's say you're right and there is no A to contend with (and trust me I wish I could really believe this is the case - again check out my sitch) - if she is going out and having fun with trust-worthy married girl friends after having spent years being mom and wife and feeling unappreciated ... ummmm, why not??? The alternative at home was less appealing ... you CAN change that.
2. You have not really come to terms with your contributions to your current sitch. It's classic, but honestly, the faster you GET it ... the sooner you will be able to proactively DB. I'm not saying that the current sitch is your fault ... just that most of us have learned that relationships belong to two people and it's rarely black and white - both have contributed to the dynamic. Look honestly at your W's complaints - are any of them fair and/or accurate? Are there things you want to change about yourself for yourself that would have the side benefit of potentially improving your M?
3. Stop talking and start doing! Don't tell your wife that the grass is greener at home - show her! Don't tell her you love her - show her! Don't tell her you'll change - show her! Get the picture?
Read, read, read! Read threads ... books ... whatever you can get your hands on ...
If you haven't read Divorce Remedy yet - get it right away ... lots of Ah hah moments. Also, I've watched lots of MWD's videos on youtube and found them helpful also.
Hang in there! I see lots of positives in your wife's attitude ... but you are in for a rollercoaster ride!
((((hugs))))
PEACE PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
These are her feelings. Right or wrong, in your eyes, they are hers and she can feel however she wants. You have said you are sorry enough. She knows it. Don't tell her again. She also knows that you are trying and it obviously pisses her off. Maybe she thinks it is all fake and you will revert to your old self. Continue to improve yourself and don't look to her to validate. She won't right now. Hell, at least she says she want to keep the family together. Give her space and time and no pressure. And, no more e-mails like this! It is pressure to her. All has been said that needs to be. She knows. You know. You will have to do the heavy lifting for the time being. Do it with a gladly with a smile on your face. If she is serious about keeping the family together, she will, eventually soften her heart if your changes are real and permanent.
^^^^ What idontunderstand said!!! Well put!
PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
