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Don't mind read or over do the analysis about what an off the cuff remark MAY have meant if anything, b/c it wastes so much energy that could be better spent on truly GAL rather than wondering if the WAS notices we might be GAL...make sense? Don't focus on HER or her reactions...turn that mirror around and look at yourself. I too think it's a good thing that thought crossed her mind even if it's a joke so STAY mysterious and let it simmer. Seriously. Note that our "victory" in these situations is not measured by how well or miserable our spouses are, but by how happy we are. It is the exclusive barometer of our success - as it is the only thing we control.

Oh, please read CS Lewis as he's considered one of the leading theologians of our time (died in the past 20 years I think) and was a former atheist. One time he and his good friend/fellow author, JR Tolkien sat up all night with Tolkien questioning how CS Lewis could not see the arguments FOR a God to exist. That talk lead to CS Lewis's tremendous change and his writing reflected it...The "Chronicles of Narnia" hit movie/book were for Children but had allegories galore about Christ and sin, etc. Lewis wrote that. AND SO MUCH MORE...he also wrote "A Grief Observed" about becoming a widower after only 4 years of marriage and "The Problem of Pain" and The Great Divorce--not about divorce from marriage but from God and was a great novel....so much to say about him but I think you get the point. CS LEWIS is a MUST read for anyone who wants to discuss these questions with non-believers' or those who have big doubts, (doubts and questioning are what Lewis argues is needed to truly hold onto a conviction --one must challenge it to know why one believes it...make sense?) And his children's books have morals in them but don't hammer you over the head with them. He's more subtle and deep.

Otherwise, I have to ponder your sitch and w some more. I guess your wife doesn't see the role of choice in any of this. How convenient for her....She thinks you "FALL" in and out of love and there's no free will? Has she prayed to "fall" in love with you again? Why not?

Fact is, sometimes I don't WANT to love my h, b/c he's grumpy or unloving to me. But you know, I suck it up and go on. Thank God he doesn't ask me at those moments, how I feel...nor do I act on those feelings in those moments....We have choice. Sometimes a "storm" of depression or anger or an ebb of love, passes overhead and you stand in the doorframe and wait for it to pass....likewise, we have emotions that wash over us and we have to cope better, rather than reacting to it, or we'd become victims to our latest hormonal fluctuation or dietary change or biochemical reaction....it's crazy to DECIDE things based on that...

Can you imagine the lives our children would lead if we moved every time we wanted a change of scenery, or bought a new car b/c we didn't feel like hammering out the dent we have in our present car, or learning how to change the oil..."Hey it's just easier to buy a WHOLE NEW CAR and start fresh" b/c guess what? A new car is shiny and smells nice and I miss that with my "old boring car"....so I guess I don't love my car anymore. Guess I MUST get a new one b/c if my present car were good for me or "Right for me", I would not FEEL bored by it or tempted by a Jaguar S, or a Mazarati either...is this analogy working?

More later....but you do have to work on better communications b/c you guys leave a whole lot unsaid. Still. And yes, you have to tread lightly so I would not bring it up yet but at some point, things have to be said. IF she revises marital history too much (we ALL do it some b/c we have diff perspectives...) then stand gently firm with "I'm sorry you think that b/c I don't recall it that way..." or say --if it applies--"Yes if I could do things over I'd do some differently but I changed that so it's not an issue anymore..." and leave it at that. That's to show her you "get it" as far as making a new m better BUT that you don't accept sole responsiblity for the choices she's making.

Tell me about the kids...your R with them and hers...I think I told you already how vital a good R is with the kids b/c NO woman is unmoved by it. IT's such a turn on actually. And it is one reason I wanted to stay M to my h b/c when the kids were younger and he wasn't such a workaholic (which he has changed now) he really was into being a dad. I loved him all the more for that. And it was a reason to work on the M more. As for her feelings of "whatever" for OM I almost wish she'd just get it out of her system b/c I get the impression that her fantasy of him is so off, that if she KNEW him, it'd be another story. Alas, too much to ask of you and I get that. Plus it's a risk- but so is any course of action you take.

[b]If you are emotionally alright for now, being with the kids as much as you are and you are not hurting yourself legally, I can see just staying the course. AND doing some reading!!
j-
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Thanks 25. I appreciate the comments, and LOVE the car analogy.

Both of our relationships with the kids are great. We are very closely aligned with how we raise them. She has mentioned in the past that she would rather I focus on more things with them instead of sports and recreation, and I have tried to do that. We play computer games and board games, and I try to get them exposed to new things.

But she has said repeatedly that I am a great father.

I am seething right now, but I'll get over it. I'm looking for input/advice on dealing with a situation that I have repeatedly told my wife to avoid.

She took the kids to a charity event where some of her old work friends were. Including the OM. That pretty much proves to me that she is no longer making an effort to avoid contact. Fine. We're separated, and I have no control over her actions.

However I have told her time and again that I don't want my kids within 1000 yards of this man. I no longer let her take our kids to her church in addition to them going with me to mass because the OM is at her church.

I don't really have any leverage here, and it is frustrating me. Legally I don't think I can do anything about her bringing our kids into contact with the OM. I don't think she does anything to display anything more than a friendship with him in front of the kids (I'd be shocked if she hugged him or did anything more in front of them. The oldest would definitely be taken aback), but it infuriates me. I can handle her being in contact with him. I cannot deal with my kids being exposed to that evil.

Any suggestions?

Are you sure of this? Have you talked with your atty about it?

TRO's are pretty standard stuff, and there may be a way you can get one against OM, even if you are separated. It's at LEAST worth looking into.

I myself was going to initiate such an action against my W during our divorce proceedings, when she was having here affair. Tactically, my atty advised doing it IMMEDIATELY AFTER the divorce decree, so as to not necessarily antagonize the opposition, and then of course the D never happened and my wife ended her affair, so it wasn't necessary.

They (Temporary Restraining Orders) are notoriously difficult to enforce, but it's worth looking into, if for no other reason than to let your wife know that you are serious, and stand ready to enforce your stated boundaries.

Puppy

Thanks for the reply, Pup. And congrats on being a Grandpa - that has to feel awesome.

Just from what I know about restraining orders, I believe there has to be a perceived threat of illegal activity. I did a little bit of research on it and it seems to come into play when there are threats or abuse/stalking, none of which I would have on the OM. A hearing must be held to justify it. While bringing kids around an OM is repulsive, it is not against the law.

I guess what I am asking everyone is whether this is a realistic boundary to have now that we are already separated? My children know absolutely nothing of this man and only know him as "mommy's friend from work". While it infuriates me that they would ever be in his presence, it isn't illegal, and my children are not in any danger. I don't want to do some legal wrangling when there is not a clear cut case for it; in my mind that would be petty and vindictive, and that's not who I am. So I'm trying to find a way to enforce some kind of consequence for violating something we agreed upon.

I could tell the kids about the OM, who he is, and what he is doing, but that would be just instigating against my wife and using the kids to do it. I won't use my kids as pawns.

The other thing I was thinking was to talk to my W about it and tell her that I won't let the kids out of the house with her; she will need to visit with them in the home. This might be justifiable as me protecting our children from her moral corruption. Let her deal with getting a legal agreement to force me to give them up.

This is such a pain in the a$$.

Oh, and an interesting side note. My W picked up a lenten bible study guide for me at her church. She got one for herself and said they had extras. Unbelievable hypocrisy.

I may have gotten my answer to this from something sgctxok posted over on the "Want Help Setting DB Relationship Goals" thread:

Do you know for a fact that the OM was there? You just mentioned that he's in the same group of friends. It's kind of hard to enforce anything if you don't know for sure.

I totally understand how upset you are. Remember my W worked with her OM for two years after we separated. I understand you don't want your children around him too, but there comes a time when you are going to have to trust your W and in God. I didn't know if my W were taking my kids to her working place or hanging out with him. I had to give that part up to faith and that one day she would see what a POS this guy was.

And lo and behold, the guy tries to get me fired. Of course my W was planning his going away party at the same time, but it shows what kind of fog they really are in. But I still leave it up to faith that it will work out.

When you do the RO, it will cause more waves. Do you think it's worth it? If so, then do it. Or clarify the boundary that you have again.

I know for a fact. My son told me he was "hanging out with Mr. OM".

I am angry and frustrated, but I can deal with that. I can control how I let my W's poor behavior impact ME.

I didn't think there was much I could do about her bringing the kids in contact with the OM, I just wanted to get other people's takes on it. Seeing sgctxok's post on it in another thread confirmed what I was already thinking.

I would not take legal action unless somehow my kids were in danger; that is the intent of the court order, not to enforce my own boundary of my W's behavior.

I do try as much as possible to "leave it up to God". When I trust in Him, I feel calm and content. When I get irritated over something like my W exposing the kids to the OM, it makes me feel as if I am losing faith that God will handle this. I felt bad about it in church today as I kept thinking about the OM with MY kids - not a thought you want running through your head in God's house.

I don't trust my W. But I do trust God. I just have to make sure I don't let that trust slip, and listen to the feeling He puts in my gut.

Worst case scenario ... your wife divorces you and marries the OM. Then your kids will be living in the same house with him part of the time.

I hope that doesn't happen either, but it COULD, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, beyond making yourself crazy AND look crazy.

By which I mean .... let it go, Indiana. You can use this to gauge her sincerity and make your choices accordingly; that's about it. Assuming you're even sure of your facts; was there any face-to-face interaction at all? If you don't know, *definitely* let it go. I can understand why even the thought of your wife and your kids and OM in the same venue would piss you off .... it would me too .... but is this the hill you want to die on???

Thanks Kettricken - good to see you in my thread again.

I like the Indiana Jones reference - got that right away.

I agree it would make me look like a psycho if I tried to get an RO. While I'm sure the circle of ex-work friends of my W know all about the EA, the OM is not a criminal and has a rep of being a nice guy, good with kids, blah blah blah. Me putting an RO on him because my wife brought my kids around him would make me look pretty foolish, I think.

Plus it would be a misuse of the principle of the RO.