Good luck with your conversation. You might need to put yourself in his town for a week and make yourself available to hang out and see if he bites. What else can you do?
If you do the above, maybe go see a friend for a support visit and just let him know you're there. No expectations, no pursuit. Just a week of availability that he is aware of? Seems like he's built up a wall with this long distance stuff.
The discussion was really painful. For the first time I could hear the anger in H's voice (he is a really nice and considerate guy, and I think a lot of the damage in the past was done with the best intentions: I think he though he would hurt me by telling me what his needs were). Now he laid all the blame on me: in our marriage everything happened the way I wanted it; he never got what he wanted (a simple life, the ability to come home in the evening happy to see his wife); he felt he had to do all the work to move to my city and make the money for both of us; all his dreams and hopes were shattered to pieces; he knows I had no intention to hurt him but the result was very painful for him. He told me that there's no hope for us together and no possibility of happiness in our marriage.
This was incredibly painful to listen to (but I did listen, and made myself not reply). It was doubly painful to hear the hurt he is going through and to which I have unwittingly contributed and also to see how he's been rewriting our history. It is a seriously revisionist history since I also wanted a "normal life," I did most of the commuting, and as a result I have close to no money in my account, while he has saved a lot, but I have no access to that money (he never put me on his account as I did...). And if he feels that everything happened the way I wanted it, it's because he did not say he disliked the way things were arranged.
I felt as if he was trying to blackmail me emotionally, as he was saying that "he needs all this hurt to end" with our divorce. I stood my ground and told him that I cannot agree to a divorce now, both psychologically (I am not there emotionally, I have not made sense of what has happened) and morally (I believe spouses should not run away at the first obstacle they encounter).
He says this IC, his friends and his family are 100% behind him that he needs to divorce me to regain his happiness. It makes me so sad to think what an image of our marriage and myself he is painting to these people. We used to be a model of happy and in-love couple for our friends...
He wanted us to have another discussion this weekend, but I insisted that the next one will happen in person. He said he is fine with that, but it has to happen on "neutral territory", not in our respective cities. He insisted that we cannot possibly stay under the same roof...How painful! I am not even sure how to read that. On the one hand, the first time I told him I intend to go to his city (about a month ago) he almost started crying on the phone and protested that "I cannot possibly come to his city" and "his apartment (i.e. our apartment in which I put all my love to decorate and make cosy) is his sanctuary." So I am thinking that it could be emotionally painful for him. But another corner of my mind thinks that maybe he wants to prove that we have not lived together for a year, to get a D.
To show that things do happen "his way," I sent him an email and agreed to a meeting in between (somewhere where it would not be expensive for me to travel). And reminded him that we could still meet in our respective cities. Or in Europe, by going to see our parents (something which he has dismissed as too pressuring for him, when I first suggested it a while ago).
Now I am trying to get my thoughts and feelings together in preparation for such a meeting (I am so afraid that I might crumble and start crying...). And do I tell him that he misinterprets our past (by pointing out what I have done for our marriage)?
Yes, rr22, you are right! And thanks for the suggestion! I also thought about that and actually took steps in that direction. I rented a small apartment in his city from mid July to mid August. Since I have tried to broach this topic with him in the past, and the reaction was disastrous (as mentioned above he almost broke down), I haven't told him yet (my plan is to tell him only after I get there). His more calm explanation before was that he doesn't want me to come to his city with expectations that things can improve between us.
Honestly, I have almost no expectations right now. I think I am in this messy situation for the long haul and I am trying to arm myself with patience. Easier said than done...I still break down and cry every day.
I also need to go to get some docs and papers from our apartment there soon. Another thing to worry about, considering his possible reaction...I have the feeling that every time I have mentioned going there, it has precipitated his attempts to push me away (the first mention of D came that way). Or maybe am just reading into it, and he was anyway decided to ask for D...This is so tough!
FLC, I am really sorry you are here and feel for you. It's terribly difficult what you are going through and it's great you already realise it takes a lot of time, patience and determination to turn around a marriage... I think you'll find some good support on these forums and can learn a lot by reading other people's threads. It's great you've already been doing that!
Also read the posts by the "vets" as they get called around here - Robx, Puppy Dog Tails, Coach and Sandi2, for example. Also did you get yourself a copy of Divorce Remedy? It's also full of good adivce.
So much to say, and I am really not an expert so I am not sure how much I can help (hoping others will weigh in here...), but I just wanted to ask if you think it is possible your husband is having an affair?
I'm sorry for the question, it's just that his "I'm not in love with you" statements, plus his feelings of "hopelessness/no chance" for your marriage, are fairly typical of those who have are involved with someone else. Plus the rewriting of your marital history, and the nasty/angry comments. Also I am a bit suspicious as to why he doesn't want you coming to his city.
Affairs are one way for spouses to disconnect, but years of feeling that emotional/phsycial needs have gone unmet can also cause a spouse to walk away... It's important to know what you are dealing with, because how you tackle fighting for your marriage will be different if there is another woman involved or not. I am not saying there is one, but it's possible, right?
Above all, for the moment, don't argue with his feelings. He'll just dig his heels in even more and think you are not listening to him.
You seem to be doing as well as you can be right now - good on you!
Me 36; H 40 baby born in May M:13, T:15 Bomb (OW): Dec 09 began DBing: Feb WH overseas with OW old: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2027369#Post2027369
Piano, thanks so much for the encouragement and all the great advice! I've read your thread and you are an amazing woman and a source of inspiration! You you will be a wonderful mother!
Looking at your thread I've come to realize that the possibility of becoming a father might have also contributed to scaring away my H. I had a totally unplanned pregnancy in Nov/Dec which unfortunately ended with early miscarriage. I think I have come to terms with what has happened and decided that it was not meant to be now (I do hope that I will have the chance to be a mother, although I had a panic about infertility last year); but my H might not have processed things in the same way. He always said that he is not ready to be a father and although when we realized we were pregnant he said he was proud of becoming a father, he felt relieved when I miscarried. Gosh, this is so painful to write about!
Yes, I've read DR and will be going to look at it for another round. I also want to read up a bit on depression before I get to see my H face to face.
I've thought about the possibility of OW. I asked him several times, he said now. Same response to question coming in January from MC and from his dad. When I last brought it up in April (telling him that his attempts to prevent me going to his city look suspicious) he told me that "there's nothing that he hides in the apartment, maybe a few cockroaches..." but that he needs "his apartment" to be "his sanctuary". Argh! The whole discussion also led to him telling me the very "flattering" detail that "he is attracted by other women but not by me."
My guess is that he fantasizes about another relationship or might have a crush on someone, but there isn't really a relationship. But of course, there's no way for me to know for sure. I am not that close to his close friends (not that he has that many...). I think I'll be able to asses things better when I am in his town for a month, later this summer.
He says this IC, his friends and his family are 100% behind him that he needs to divorce me to regain his happiness. It makes me so sad to think what an image of our marriage and myself he is painting to these people. We used to be a model of happy and in-love couple for our friends...
My informal survey is most ICs tell WAS what they want to hear and help them deal with their guilt about abandoning their vows. That's what they get paid for. My friend calls it "guilt removal services." It's not "behavioral change service" unless you specifically ask for a behavioral tune-up.
He can't stop you from going to stay in a hotel or a friend's place in his city so you can go to your apartment and go get your things. He will probably panic and yell if you do so. But maybe around day three he will calm down. Or not.
Yes, I definitely think the miscarriage had something to do with it. Sorry to say. Sad that that happned for you this year on top of this. Regardless of his feelings about the miscarriage, sounds like he is on a flight from children. Read Flowmom's thread and think carefully about DBing a man who can't handle the responsibility of children if you think you want them soon. Her H wants them but seems unable to handle the responsibility for them emotionally or timewise. Sorry FM if I'm reading this wrong or if that sounds harsh. My only point is if you think your H is panicing on the child issue and you might want one, maybe the time is to let him go. However painful this might be. Do you want to get deserted with a two-year old in a few years? sorry to sound so blunt, but there seems to be a lot of depressed, avoidant Hs in this world whose spouses are now (with children) on this board.
