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I'm not sure what I should think of this. H announces that he and S have "plans" for the weekend--going to his parents and brother's place this weekend, which includes Mother's Day (Sunday).

I REALLY protested this one--told him to go down and be with HIS mother if he wanted, but I wanted to spend time with the one person on the planet I gave birth to.

He acted like he was going to give me trouble--I got a lot tougher--asked him how he was going to explain to his family how he excluded ME on Mother's day. He said he wouldn't say anything about me. I said that it would be obvious.

So he backpedaled a bit--said he would come home on Sunday. I said "what time" and he said anytime I wanted. I said "10" and he said yes.

Then he invited me down--said I could have Sat to myself (which, I love a free weekend day to myself) and I could come down Sunday for a steak dinner (his brother makes great steak).

The only thing is...I really won't spend any time with S. He will be running around with his cousins the whole time. I guess it's alright. I just feel like I was disrespected again.

Ugh--I don't know how I feel about this.

Yes, that was purely disrespectful. I'm glad he backpeddled but that doesn't quite make up for that, does it?

I'd say you're going to spend Mother's Day with your S and H CAN GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO.

I totally relate to this. I let my H bully me because i'm so busy "understanding his pov and making it happen". No. This is the wrong response. ARe they understanding our pov? Are they making what we want to happen? No.

We must find the strength to say NO. To stop listening. It's the hardest in the world when you're being verbally assaulted at top volume. I got one on Monday too! But hang in there, you did great using your script.

The detachment will be helped with laughter if you can do this. Just imagine those counselors standing next to you when H goes off. Imagine them laughing and see it from their perspective.

But take a look at alternatives to "Seeing his pov and making it happen." Find a 180 on that. I'm with you on this one~!

H4L, thanks SO much for that!! You are SO right--why for GOODNESS SAKES do we bend ourselves into PRETZELS to see their (nutty) POV???

Lord, PLEASE let me detach and see the humor! The C's said it would be the BEST thing--to laugh in his face. I was all like "but that is so disrespectful!" but they said it really would be helpful. I am so glad you chimed in here and reaffirmed that!

After this a.m.'s conversation I think I will go back to insisting on having my S to myself on Mother's Day. For one thing, it was very disrespectful. For another, I have to drive 5 hours on Sunday (they live 2 1/2 hours away) to have Mother's Day with his family.

So this a.m. he asks if we can talk in a very subdued, non angry way. I said sure. He says he just can't do this any more. He's tired of being angry with me, tired of paying for things of mine (went through the credit card statements and found haircuts, nail salon charges, my dog was at the vet's three times and it was a very large bill, etc), tired of me doing nothing to help the relationship (yeah, should have inserted laughter here but AGAIN because it was "different" he threw me).

He said he was going to see a lawyer. I said "OK". I am so detached, this doesn't phase me at all. Plus, well, I smell freedom at this point and my life will be much better anyway and honestly, as a Christian, if he files I will have no guilt that way either.

So he gets angry, and I know this means pretty much that the above was to get a reaction out of me and it didn't, so on to anger.

He's angry I didn't continue with the first C. I don't know if I posted this here, but one of the reasons I stopped going was because I developed a lot of feelings for the C. Also he was expensive, and another thing was that my H was giving signs he was "done" (he is not the type to go to counseling long term AT ALL) and I was going a lot by myself. Hence the feelings for the C thing.

BTW, the 2 Cs I saw yesterday said they NEVER do counseling without the other because it happens ALL the time and they've seen many a pastor/conselor get involved in an affair this way. I totally see how it happens too. He was SO positive with me--I'm smart, funny, beautiful--all the things that a person needs to be "built up" so I have SOME confidence because my H certainly doesn't do that right now. And of course I am sex deprived and the C is EXPLICITLY telling me how to use my body to get to my H.

I mean, I told my sister about it and she wanted me to just tell the guy--that he had probably heard it a million times before and probably knew how to stop it in me. But I was too embarassed--but I digress...

So...I told him and he called me crazy and stormed off. It's fine--obviously he has to take some time to digest that one.lol.

Do I need to say AGAIN how much I love detachment??! Now I just need to find the humor ALONG with the detachment.lol.

I went out and had a lovely walk and you know what? No matter what happens I am in a fabulous place in life. I have never felt more peace and joy on this weird journey.

Wow, Laura= has he said this about a lawyer before? I know you have said that he says things in anger - and it's just the anger talking - is this what this is? Bait? Or does he mean it? EIther way I admire how you didn't react I would have hit the roof.

Now this thing with the C doesn't sound good for you. He's a bit taking advantage of a woman who needs some positive attention and I don't want to see you get hurt. I don't agree about using your body to get your H's attention. I think that's inappropriate for him to say and you might want to tell the C so. Frankly I just quit my therapist because he told me he had an affair with a client and he lost his license. I'm getting a woman C. She can be just as affirming.

I also understand the temptation for affairs when H is abusive. When H left I had a fling and ultimately it hurt me worse. It was actually abusive to me in anther way to be taken advantage of like that when I was vulnerable.

And yes, laugh at how you're not trying in the R?

Your H sounds just like mine - he calls me crazy, makes legal threats, blames me for his own anger...I don't know what to say. We are in a special predicament since our H's are verbally abusive. I am trying to figure out how/if DB works with such a dynamic.

I would definitely insist that mother's day with your son is for YOU and you do what you want with your son. If your H chooses to go see his mother instead, that's his choice. But no way do you have to spend YOUR day driving 5 hours to do what he wants!

So how are you going to continue to enforce boundaries with H? I want to support you, and I also could use the support~!

Hey H4L, isn't it strange how you see parallels in some of the other sitchs? That's how I could see SO clearly a couple of things in your sitch--I am living it here! I'm THRILLED to have you chime in--you just nailed it up there!!

I don't remember him mentinoing a lawyer before, but it wasn't shocking or anything. Maybe he has. He says stuff in his rages and for the pat 3 1/2 months I've had scripts and leaving the house on my mind so I'm not sure. *I* think he is scared that *I* have gone already to see one. Anger is fear--and he is trying to figure out where I am at (keep in mind, I am as strange to him as he is to me--he cannot figure me out).

Yeah, I stopped going to that C a few months back because...it was just so distracting. I do agree though that I need to use my body. My H's 2nd LL is physical touch and he has shut down to me completely. My C doesn't want him to see me as not a woman. God's plan is for us to motivate our H's using what God gave us and he helped me see that. Most do it around here--more sexy outfits, get in shape and toned, flirt, etc. I have been a bit prudish and more "mom". He wanted me to be more "girlfriend". You know, the stuff you did to GET your H (and we all did it). I agree now--you should show less skin BEFORE marriage and MORE afterwards!

I think you did the right thing to quit your C--how did you happen to find that out about him?!

Well, weird developments never end.lol. I tell you, you just have to detach and then you can observe the strangeness and be AMAZED by it!

H calls me--he spoke to his brother. He asks brother to have steaks on Sat so he can spend Mother's Day with (drum roll) me and S. Ooookayyyy....And he tells me I'm invited to go down and have steaks with them, but the thing is that I made plans to go to a marriage workshop at church. He's like "you'll be the only single person there with a bunch of couples". I said, "I know, but I want a good marriage! If not for you and me, for the next one".

Then he says...you never tell me anything. I would have gone with you...(huh?? yeah, right! Hysterical laughter should have happened again!). I have a few words about how I didn't KEEP it from him, he made plans without me.

So I ask if he will go to church Sunday and he asks when the later service is and I tell him 10:30. And yes, he will go.

Now, he doesn't yet realize that the service is on marriage as well.lol. It's a whole MONTH of this.lol.

Ok, there will be lots of steps back now...lol. I'm ready!

Gotta think some more on the boundaries--I am just sitting here stunned by this afternoon's events.

Hey H4L, one thing I want to let you know is that my angry H has never been as scary as my quiet, crying H.

Angry H is not leaving me. He is here for me to DB as much or as little as I want--I'm in control with that one. I just have to learn how to do this better.

Other people's Hs are scary to me--the quiet ones, the depressed ones, etc. I wouldn't begin to know how to do this with them.

But Angry H? He desperately wants me to figure it out--he is here for me to get it right. In my soul, I know that I know that I know this is true.

Just some thoughts...I just DON'T want to get back into counseling again. It's so boring--listening to H say all kinds of terrible things about me. It takes a while for the C to "see" him, and in the meantime...once again I hear how I am the reason he is so miserable.

The last guy was so great in a way--he agreed to everything I wanted in my M. Said my kitchen would be done in 6 months. (not). Told my H to let me go on a vacation with my S on my own, since H is doing it (not). Said since we both enjoyed (a certain sport) H should buy me better equipment. It's very expensive, but C told him I'd research it, bring him my findings and then we would develop a budget for it. Yeah, I don't see that happening either.

A funny thing about when I told H the other day about the feelings I developed for the counselor, he said "But you hated the guy". (I didn't like him much at first) I was like--what was there to hate about him? He gave me everything I wanted. H said, "yeah, and I put a stop to that." I said, well, that is how I developed feelings for SOMEONE ELSE. That put a very weird look on H's face.

Hi, Laura, just checking out your sitch. About the counselors...
it takes awhile to find the right ones. I'm sure you are familiar with "transference" where the patient develops feelings for the counselor exactly for the reasons you described. But all counselors are aware of this phenomenon, too. I suspect the counselor who was being sexually explicit with you was trying to see if you would respond to HIM- good job quitting! Gross- I think it is unethical of him to have spoken to you like that.


I have a male counselor. When I told him that I was trying to make sure that WH sees my weight loss and sees me looking my best and wearing clothes that flatter my figure, he said "well, if I can say this without getting in trouble, you are doing a great job!" I said thank you. I consider that to be an appropriate way of giving me a compliment that isn't crossing boundaries!!

GREAT JOB not reacting to your H when he brought up L! And for being so strong about saying stuff like "I want a good marriage-if not for you and me, the next one!" and telling him about the C!

Thanks Newmom--I totally was patting myself on the back about the way I handled the L thing. Yea me!!

And you're right--transference--it happened.lol. I even started to cyberstalk C a little!! Didn't find much about him on the net though..

Yeah, that's when I thought about how this was becoming a problem.lol.

I think C was really on to something though...creepy as it kinda seems now... I'm not there yet, but I will be a mad flirt at some point and I will give some of those things a try. I DO think he was trying to help--I am rather stiff and unemotional with my H a LOT. He makes me nervous in general and always has.

I want to learn how to "lighten up". Laugh at him, flirt with him, be a lot less serious.

I did do something fun and not really me the other day. H, me and S went downtown to "Teen Court" to get S some volunteer hours he needs because he is in an honor society at school. (this is where the kids are "tried" for small, petty crimes by a jury of their peers).

S got picked to be in the jury which he loved. Before we went into the courtroom they were telling the kids they had a VERY strict dress code in court--no jeans, button down shirts, girls' skirts had to be a certain amount of inches above the knee (not too short).

I had on a "skort" (part skirt, part shorts) that my sister had given me. It is not at all my normal dress and H had never seen it. They let us in court and H and I sat in the seats in back and S went up to be part of the jury. H remarked that my "skirt" was now too short. (it hiked up pretty good when I sat down) So I "flashed him" (picked up the skirt part) really quick a couple of times--then laughed at him (he was pretty shocked, not really knowing what he was looking at) and explained it was a "skort" with shorts underneath.

I "flashed" him a couple more times on and off--mostly when we were supposed to be good and be quiet--to get him to laugh.

I think that was a move in the right direction, on the way to unleashing my "inner flirt".lol