Where we are: W has broken off A with ex-boyfriend (last contact about a month ago (“few more things I had to say via text”) – NC in place since then).
She has started a new job a few months ago (after 10 years as a SAHM) and she’s really made that her focus – have talked to her about wanting to figure “us” out, and she’s agreed to MC (did see our MC once as an IC session) but hasn’t gone yet together (typical weekly cycle – me setting up appt and she agreeing but then 2-3 days before the appt, cancelling due to work stress/too busy/etc. – has “agreed” to go next week “for real”, as I’ve told her I can’t see me being able to get past the A without it).
I have been seeing MC as IC during this time (when she blew off the visits), which has been helpful, but I’ve told her I can’t optimally do this work alone and that at some point, her not doing MC together will become a “dealbreaker” for me. We’ll see if she actually goes with me next week (makes her very anxious/nervous, is a very “private” person).
She feels like we’re “piecing” this together and that it’s going fine, but I still feel like the other shoe hasn’t dropped yet, and haven’t felt like she’s done much of anything to try to show she’s trying to reconcile/repair the M. There’s still some discomfort/tension between us (for me, with a lot of these issues in the air and her not really focused on “us”).
Part of this, for me, is that W has told me that she’s chosen the family unit/life and not so much *me* (and she is not in a place that she can be physical with me, needs to try to see if romantic feelings for me will “come back”)…we are more generally affectionate.
I have told her that I can try to be patient here but at some point I won’t live in a “roommate” marriage anymore (we have 2 boys, age 6 and 9). I have also told her that I need to feel cared by for me, not me as a father, breadwinner, etc., and need to get my needs met.
Any advice on how to get her engaged would be appreciated…know you can’t “make” anyone do anything necessarily, but at a loss to figure out how to start moving her toward me (am GALing a bit (but probably not enough) and doing what I can to keep the house together/make it easy for her to focus on work).
I read through your sitch and wrote reply last night that got lost.
Why are you on the Piecing board?
It doesn't seem like that's where you are.
What I saw in your posts is a lot of anger and that you have wounds that are hurting you and will only drive your W away.
All the DBing strategies you did have gotten you here. The thing you missed was focuing on YOU. This process IMO is more about getting yourself healthy and figuring out what YOU want. You can't do that when you are focused on who W is sleeping with, talking to, not talking to, working for or whatever. I know this sounds counter intuitive but you have to pull back and focus on you.
IMO tactics and strategies don't work. They may have short term effects but they don't have longevity because real change has not occured. Your W is having a lot of confusion and pain right now. That is all you need understand about it becasue YOU can't fix it. She is blaming you for this and searching for someone or something to take this pain away. New man. New Job. Whatever.
You have to have to detach from this cycle she is in. If no one gave you this link here it is:
This is the GAL part. You need to get a life for you. Not as a means to an end...strategy to get W back.
When you get to a healthy place you can make good decisions about your life, your W and your M.
She is not the stronger one right now. You are. But you are not being the strongest man you can be for your family. You are the walking wounded right now. You need to heal yourself and that takes time, commitment, courage and patience.
If you keep moving down this path you will be divorced most likely. Your M is still is crisis.
Who do YOU want to be?
I am on the MLC boards. You can find me over there.
Good luck.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Really appreciate this feedback, True Gritter...guess I was anticipating being able to address some of this in MC, but know I need to get back to GALing and figuring out what *I* want (both in my M and generally).
Agree the M is still in crisis (which is exactly what our MC has said to me)...being patient is hard and I guess I need to be patient with myself as well as with my W.
My sense is that she would just want to shove everything about the A "under the rug" (and I have told her in no unclear terms that I can't do that and that I have to "go through" processing the A before I can try to "get over it").
I think I have read that even though the A has ended it takes a while for the betrayer to really recommit to the marriage. That they are mourning the loss of the OP. I know sounds sick... but I think that there is a lack of commitment at first, that they are managing their own sh@t if that makes sense.....
They probably have to work on a lot of guilt and shame issues....
Last edited by june72; 05/06/1003:13 PM.
M38, H37 S3, S7 Together 15 yrs Married 8 yrs Bomb July 2008 Inhouse separation "I hate you" "We are over" (too many times to count) Reconciled Sept 2009 (still worth it)
Why don't you try something different. This would be in the 180 category. Instead of focusing on W. Detach from this sitch. Don't talk to her about the affair. She is bucking the counseling say ok I don't think its time for us to go either. Take a break from talking about your R. Be the best Dad you can be. Don't pressure her. Don't pursue her. Don't have expectations of her. The only expectation you should have is for YOU to get better. GAL. Do things with your boys.
Let that settle in with you. You'll find you feel your confidence and power coming back to you. If she says something that is about you or R just validate DON'T ARGUE.
Set some goals for yourself. Not for your W or your M. For you.
To be honest your W may still be in A and you probably need to pay attention to that. She is looking for something to take her pain away. Sometimes that means alcohol and substance abuse and usually A but it is very hard to quit cold turkey any of this stuff but it has to be her choice. Or it's like an alcoholic trying to pass a bar. Get it?
If she is still in the A and she is also living with you and telling you she wants to fix the M then thats a cycle of cake eating that you have to bust. There is a gamble and you have to decide if your ready for the consequences. She may keep on running...
Anyway YOU make these decisions and they will be yours and you will not be the victim of someone elses choices. You make these decisions from a position of strength rather than weakness. When you walk away (if you decide to) you walk away with dignity, grace and confidence. And a better man...
...for this M or the next R you decide to get into.
Last edited by Truegritter; 05/06/1003:26 PM.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Your advice rings true to what she's been asking, actually - feels I've been "pressuring" her (don't think I've really been pursuing) and probably trying too hard to "reconnect".
Definitely learned when I was really DBing well that it was starting to "work" (asking about why I was so mysterious, etc.), although it may have backfired a bit at the time, too, as she felt like a "stranger in her own house" and felt like there wasn't anyone to talk to (so, at the time, justified staying in contact with OM).
Did feel good to get some "power" back by not worrying so much about what she was doing/thinking/etc.
I really do believe the A is over (not that she's not still thinking about it) and know she's pretty consumed by this new job (has been working 7 days a week and really concentrating on it being a success).
Guess I've been down that road (concentrating on work to the detriment of my M and other things) and know in the end it's really not that fulfilling, and have told her that the longer we wait to really examine what led up to the A, the longer it will take for any real healing to happen.
Other thing I need to do (assuming we do MC this week) is tell her that my sister knows about her A (as our MC said she will bring this up as we begin therapy, which she doesn't know).
Really appreciate the detachment article - is definitely helpful as I now see that we're both co-dependent on each other.
MC is not going to do any good if A is still going on. Is there anyway for you to know for sure? Have you done any investigating?
If it has ended she will go through a withdrawal or mourning period which as hard as it may sound you need to give her some space until she's done with it.
Has her behavior changed toward you?
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Have continued to snoop (and have access to cell phone bills) - as far as I can tell, NC in place the last month (not that she hasn't thought about it - did see a couple of accesses on pages with pictures of OM, but that's it)...she's no longer Facebook friends.
Still exhibits the behavior of having her cell on her at all times (but have noticed lately there are some instances in which it's been out and potentially accessible by me, so not like it was before, where she nearly brought it in the shower w/ her)!
NC has been in place about a month, so makes sense she might still be in mourning/withdrawal.
Would say behavior has changed toward me a little bit, but it's all over the place - 1 minute she "needs space", the next she's holding my hands in public, the next she's asking why I didn't comment on her "cute top".
DEFINITELY doesn't want anything "sexual" (and that is I think the biggest hurdle for us to cross), as we've lived a pretty a-sexual existence for so long - she's OK with the nightly peck, some non-sexual physical touch at night, but definitely doesn't want to "really" kiss me or certainly do anything beyond that (also very discrete when undressing/etc...turns her back)..."doesn't know if/when those feelings for me will come back."
Told her I can try to be patient but being in a loveless marriage is a deal breaker for me, longer-term. Think that, for me, is actually the biggest hurdle here - figuring out how to try and turn that back on after so many years (yes, am reading SSM and other books to try and figure that out)...
Told her I can try to be patient but being in a loveless marriage is a deal breaker for me, longer-term.
I understand but in this sitch it is applying pressure. Obviously a long term goal for you. And for her. She doesn't want that kind of M either I expect. Ergo the A.
A lot of your behavior is trying to control. Trying to get affection back etc. Take a look at this. She is running away from you. Buddhist saying: We chase that which runs away from us. So if you stop chasing/ controlling would she stop running away?
A question. You mentioned she had some issues growing up. Has she anything with you? There may be some reasons for her behavior change.
Lastly, she is still bucking MC and being very private?
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Thanks for opening my eyes to things I wasn’t perceiving as “control” – guess she just really isn’t ready yet and I have to accept that and not push. I will make a conscious effort to hold back and see what happens.
The issues she has with me is that I essentially shut down emotionally (after trying to please her/get along for many years and feeling like, no matter what I did, we were in the same place), and know she felt very alone as a result (of course, I was feeling the same way)…
I think I then pored myself into the kids/work (as those seemed more “controllable” than figuring out what we were doing), and we were very disconnected. I started anew late last year when I bought the DB book (as a lot of our struggles were really the “control” ones – we’re both stubborn and would tend to dig our heels in when the other tried to “control” the relationship). Reading DB made me realize that much of the stuff we were fighting/bickering around were really not that important (and weren’t really about those things anyways), so I started letting go and not engage and, as a result, we started getting along better (of course, I thought we were starting to “reconnect”, but instead she started the A a month or so later). She recently told me that, during our “disconnected” time (which was many years), she felt I didn’t care about what she did/was about (and now it’s probably swung the other way, where I’m asking her about her work, etc., and not just the typical “family”/scheduling stuff, which I know is a “180” for me).
I haven’t brought up MC this week (but she knows I’ve scheduled it for next Thursday), and I’d say is still “private” but it seems to really around the work and don’t think the A (though of course I could be wrong).
I have no evidence to suggest anything is going on, as there was an “incident” that happened last weekend when I thought the A might be back on that ended up being a huge coincidence (found out OM was in town for a soccer game and she was going to stay with a friend that night, coincidentally). As a result, some of this stuff got back out into the open and that’s when she agreed to the MC, I think now understands the things she can do to make me feel “safe’, etc.
I would say that privacy was a bit of an issue before the A – she’s definitely not one that would sign onto full transparency in terms of cell phone/email – she is a very “private” person that really doesn’t bring her inner world to the surface to anyone, which I’ve been trying to break through (but now need to really go the other direction).
Appreciate all of this, TG...need to read your stitch this weekend!
