Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Midlife Crisis Husband being hateful and cruel. Is this a stage?

As I read these posts.... I am amazed at what is so similar and yet different at the same time.
CK, you are still focusing on trying to understand. I know, because I find myself doing the same very often. I can tell you what has helped - the old saying, "an elephant is best eaten in pieces." What I mean by that is that you need to consciously change things about your focus. One small thing at a time. You have done some of that, but do more. Slowly, deliberately detach yourself. The venting is a good thing and you are doing that. But I think what you are seeing is that you are also driving yourself mad from time to time as you try to figure out the un-figurable (so to speak).
Your husband couldn't figure it out and you won't be able to either. Know that even as you vent and go crazily about your day. Know that it is NOT you or anything you did that caused him to be like this. I know you'll doubt me on that, and I'm not saying there wasn't some room for improvement on your part. What I'm saying is that this is his journey and you are along for the ride until it stops for you. It may not turn out like you think you want it to right now. You'll have to go the full ride to find out. But as somebody else once mentioned on this board - It's a crazy ride. Get your money's worth.
Try changing one habit at a time where it concerns him. Things you used to do, as they come up, change it.

The things you describe? Very normal. Even your reactions to them based on what I have seen in my own life and here. It's a wild wild wild ride. In my case it is ending in divorce as far as I know - not my choice, but I have to say I am relieved to not live so close to the monster any longer . I miss my wife, but not the monster.
I am sooooo tired because I didn't move far enough back from the situation and tried really hard to analyze and be perfect and do the right things. I did. I am glad I did. But being that close didn't help in hindsight. Stepping back further would have been a really good thing for my own sanity and well being. I literally have nothing left to give. No anger (not much anyway). No nothing.

I admire your efforts. I really do. You are very well organized and you have a great handle on things. Keep it up and slowly but certainly change your habits to give yourself some room on this ride. You don't know how it will turn out, but don't be so tired at the end that you cannot even breathe. You'll need that breath later.

Via con Dios, chica.

AJM,
How did you get so wise in your young age? I suppose experience is the best teacher, huh? Thank you for your comments.

Yes, I do tend to analyze way too much. It's kind of a blessing and a curse with me. I've always thought that knowledge was power. And, I've always been fascinated with how the brain works. In the past I have worked in some mental health facilities and I am amazed at how much MLC is like mental illnesses. And probably because of that work history, I find myself delving into all the reasons for my husband's actions and trying to figure everything out. I know I will never find out the how and why. I doubt my husband even knows that!

After reading your post, I was reminded of a time when I asked our psychologist about a certain client. She was a caring, lovely woman who liked me and talked easily to me. But, she was so very mentally ill that I asked the psychologist if he could give me suggestions of what to say or reply to her when she talked about her issues. I told him how she could be laughing and then in mid sentence start cussing a blue streak! I asked him to tell me what was really wrong with her. Now, as you may know, in the mental health field, they usually refer to clients as "not doing very well", or he's "very sick", etc. You just never referred to them as crazy. It just wasn't politically correct, even if that term was more accurate.

But on this day, the psychologist thought for a few minutes about my question, shook his head and then said, "Denise, she's just crazy." All the analyzing of her words and actions was pretty much summed up for me with that statement. She was crazy. Well, I think MLC is just that. It makes them all just crazy!

Now, I confess that tonight I am having a rough time. The house is way too quiet. We have had company with 2 little girls jumping all over the house and they left today. And my daughter went to the baseball game, so I am home alone. My 2 dogs keep looking at me like they're bored to death and how did they get stuck with me? LOL!

I miss my husband very much. I just miss talking to him. I am sitting here wondering how in the world this happened to us? How could we be together for 33 years and he just walks out? Yes, I wish I could just smack him and say snap out of it! But, of course, MLC isn't something you just snap out of. And even though he has probably been in this for over a couple of years, he could be in it for some time. I guess I am just having my own pity party tonight. I suppose those probably come to all of us every now and then. I sort of feel like I am taking 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.

I do have to tell you one thing. I am grateful that h left me that way. Through all of the pain and even the whining I am doing now, I would have never listened to God if I hadn't been blindsided and shook to my core. God continues to chisel away at me and yes, it's very painful at times. However, when I look back to just the last couple of months, I have changed quite a bit. I just have a long way to go.

I have a prayer request. I need to find a job PDQ! Besides the financial burden, I know working will get my mind off of my situation and help me to move on. The job market sucks right now and I just need some prayer warriors to help me pray. Because I do know that God can make a way. Without Him I would be lost completely! In my prayers, I ask God to give me some answers. He just tells me to wait. Now, this just proves that God also has a sense of humor and I swear I have literally heard Him laugh. Because He knows I have no patience and I hate waiting!!! And I know He's trying to teach me something throughout all of this. I told God I didn't want to learn anything new and He just said tough.

My favorite Bible verse is one that now means a lot more to me. Back in my teen years when I chose this as my favorite verse (as if you can have a favorite Bible verse....they're all good!) I didn't realize there would come a day that I would really need to lean on it.

Isaiah 41:10 "Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God. I will strengthen thee, I will help thee, and I will uphold thee with the right hand of My righteousness."

Of course God has a sense of humor - haven't you seen a platypus before?

No, I don't think any of us, including the stbx's will ever know the truth of what has happened or their own part in it. If they admit the truth to themselves, it's too scary. To difficult to address. It's why they pushed it back for so long I suppose. I don't really know, but I think of it this way.
I was reminded when I read your posts yesterday about keeping perspective. I will pray for you and getting a job - it will help you to keep your mind moving and will help you meet other people and generally move on. A great idea no matter what the job ends up being. Do it sooner rather than later. Go now
I am also reminded about faith. Faith in something I can see is not really as strong a faith as faith in something I can't see but have faith is there. I've struggled with my faith a bit off and on. More about what my actions are in my faith than having faith. It's tough. It's hard to think that after this many years that God has a different plan than I had guessed.
I used to pray at night to be a great husband and father - I naturally assumed it would be with the wife I was married to. I know I am with the kids.

While we cannot see the future, we can have hope that it will be better than yesterday. It will be. Believe that.

I think the analysis is a natural reaction. We want to understand because if we can understand we may be able to solve "the problem". With MLC, there is no solving anything. And that's frustrating enough, but the WAS has to add the insults and disremembering of your past that you then end up having to analyze enough (at first) to discredit.

One really cool thing about this board is that the same patterns occur over and over and over again. I'm always amazed that I can start a sentence and somebody else can finish it as if I wrote it. Especially when I talk about what the MLC'r said or did. I can see that in your posts as well. The names are different but the stories and actions are the same.

I joined a local support group. I highly recommend it for the social interaction. I've already met some great friends. The stories are the same there too - Somebody can start a sentence and others can finish it almost as if they wrote it. It's the to the point I can almost tell you what is coming next. (of course we can't guess - it's not predictable in that sense although the overall pattern is).

It is like mental illness. Very much so. Lots of similarities. But that's why i encourage you to get some distance from him. Don't wait for him to push you away. Push him away. Gently, but do it. Do it before the scars are so deep you can never smile when you think back on your marriage. It's also a way to regain your marital balance. Not out of spite, but out of love. And you seem to be doing just that and very well. It'll help you to maintain your sanity. And you will need every bit of your energy to effort to do that.

What do you do in the psychology field? I think I read that but don't recall exactly.

AJM

I, too, have heard Him laugh before. Listen to Him, CK..He has more of a handle on your situation than you ever will.

He DOES instruct you, speaking to your heart gentle words of comfort, and instruction.....yet, you have a hard time listening to what He tells you.

We have a tendency to think we can do things by ourselves, but boy, are we ever wrong, LOL!!

Patience is something developed within this trial..and there are SO many other things that are learned, if we will take the time to learn. The Lord is the best instructor we will ever have.

And, by the way, you'll find a job and soon..the Lord has this in the works for you; trust in HIM with everything you have.

As long as you put Him first, all else will fall into place.

His Hand is upon you and the situation at hand, this I do know.

He makes the crooked paths straight for us and will even make our enemies at peace with us...if we'll only have faith and believe...plus be willing to trust Him with everything in our lives.

He knows what's best.

I know some of you will think I am still trying to make heads or tails out of this MLC....and I probably am. It's so frustrating! I have limited my contact with h to just business stuff. Tonight I met him briefly to hand over some bills that he has to pay. And I do mean briefly....we pulled our cars up side by side. What amazes me is when I am simply giving him the bills and explaining some other business, he automatically gets snarky. And, then later on started the text messaging again with his horrible comments.

I cut the texts off quickly. He is so paranoid about everything and even though I know they do this, it catches me off guard because the things he says are so nutty.

When I first went to his place, his woman friend was in his parking space talking on her cell phone. At one point early on I thought they were an item, but now realize they really are just friends. She lives with her boyfriend. I talked to her briefly and thanked her for being his friend since I was no longer there. She immediately started telling me she was just friends with him and I assured her that I knew that. While I was talking to her, her cell phone rang and I heard her say yes. Sure enough, it was h on the phone asking her if I was there. He called me back to let me know he was on his way and could I meet him halfway. I said sure, no problem. When I did see him, I told him his friend looked awful and I was concerned about her. She has the look of "rode hard, put away wet." He told me she had lost her job today and was very upset. And then he said he was going to talk to her and see if he could encourage her. And then he sped off.

So, he can encourage this person who obviously has some major problems in her life with drugs and alcohol besides her job, but with me he is critical. He told me I was a burden on society because I'm on unemployment. But his friend can lose one job after another and he's ok with that. I think they not only affair down, but they also friend down.

I told h that our daughter had broken her ankle. She has RSD, which is a horrible disorder. She has nerve damage in her left foot that travels up her leg. Breaking her ankle is certainly not a good thing for her. Now a normal father would be concerned about his daughter. But, he looked like it didn't phase him at all. He has not spoken to d since he left in November. His reply was "well, I sent her a text and she didn't reply, so I guess she doesn't want to talk to me." I was thinking wah! somebody call the wambulance!! But, I kept my mouth shut.

It's times like these that I wish I could just run away from it all. But, I can't do that.

You are still trying to make sense of it. Can I tell you something you already know? (I will say it anyway - for us both

You can't make sense of something that is crazy. It's not meant to be made sense of. Imagine how confusing it is for him as well right? And he is the one doing it. If he can't explain it, neither can you.

I think what you describe is about par for the course. To sum it up:
He believes you are the root of all evil in the world. It's all your fault. Everything. The collapse of the marriage, the children not wanting to talk to him, earthquakes in Chile, the recession, the sun not shining the way he likes it. All of it.

Your expectations of him being a "normal" father? Really? I know you are venting, but figured I'd point out the obvious

He will look at everyone else and figure they are the best thing in the world and deserving of his support and friendship. As in myopathy, you are not present in that circle of his vision. A big blind spot where once you were the center of the universe as he knew it. In his mind, it is likely the "right" thing to do to get rid of you. Now he only has to justify it so it is not his fault and he can be the wounded and abused spousal unit. So what if he has to twist the truth a bit? If he were to tell the truth, then he's the one that is messed up and has a lot of work to do and a lot of scary things to face. But if he lies about it to himself....well, that's different. Eventually he will convince himself. People that know him for about 5 minutes will see it, but he won't listen if I had to guess.

He has to work through this. In the end of it, he may not come to the truth. He may come to the truth and not come back to you and admit what that is. Sadly, they do have to go through this in some way.

I've likened it before to having an emotional stroke. Hard to tell the damage that has occurred but it's there. And they need pain to fuel themselves forward and to gain their emotional health again. They will do anything to get it back. It's imperative.

They will surround themselves with some of the biggest losers you've ever seen in your entire life. They will feel like those people "get it" and understand that you are satan incarnate sent to break him down and cause him grief.

And years from now they will not remember the details of the pain and heartache and disappointment they have caused you.

From your perspective he is crazy. Lost. Searching. From his, you did this. You are the reason for the crazy season and his kids are taking your side because they don't know any better. From his perspective he'll tell people that "there are two sides to every story - please don't judge." I've seen it from both sides (not me - I had a neighbor that took a ride on the crazy train). I'm living it now with my STBX that I am still in the same house with. It's nuts. It's inexplicable to see what they do to try and paint pictures that support their view and dis-remember the past good memories. It's as if they put 1000% effort into making you the bad person and the reason they are leaving.

My thought is that for them to face reality is really that much more painful than losing you. They can't be happy either way and they choose the one thing they can try and control - their relationship with you. They tell themselves whatever it takes to make that happen. At your cost.

My suggestion? Keep posting. Keep detaching. Keep swimming. You cannot figure out what they are going through or why it started. You may have a good idea of the background that led to it. But you may as well be talking to a red rubber ball.

Keep posting. I think you have a great writing style and I think it helps to post. It has helped me. That and therapy of course... But I don't discount talking to people that can relate. People such as yourself.

Remember it is not over until you say it is over. When you do say it is over, there is no more that he can do to hurt you. By that I mean you will be done and whatever he does won't affect you. He will continue to try for as long as you let him. I think you are doing a remarkable job of staying objective and that is incredibly helpful. I think you found something else out about those-who's-soul-the-aliens-stole: they go through friends like cheap suits. That woman friend? She is just a friend. It may not be what he wants and it may be. But they are just friends and nothing more sometimes. If you befriend them, you poison the pond and they need to find other friends. Choose whom you befriend carefully because they will need these friends as they search for themselves. And they will discard them over time as they use them up and no longer need them. They will see them differently and figure out they don't like them. They will use them for the fuel they can't get from us to propel themselves through this process. They are in desperate need to do so.

Oh. And remember that they may look unhappy to you. And they are. But they will be different around other people. Almost normal to many. It's bizarre how it just all of a sudden (to us anyway) happened overnight. Like an emotional stroke.

Keep up the PMA too. It's important. Make new friends to go with the old ones. Try not to tell too many old friends about what is going on for now. Come up with a story and give it out. Close friends of yours? Sure. Those that are mutual and not as close? Try not to.

I really do enjoy your writing style. I'm sorry it's here but keep posting.

AJ

Thank you for your comments, AJM. They mean a lot to me. I read some of your situation and I must say, you have come a long way. Now I know that's where the wisdom comes from.

I am having a very rough day. Yes, it's because h and I have been texting back and forth. His hatred knows no bounds. My car will not start and I asked him if he could come take a look at it. I think it's the starter and he can fix that easily. I don't have the money to take it anywhere else. Well, he said his car isn't running again. So, he can't come. So, I'm stuck.

Then that escalated into how he faked sex with me for 33 years. Never loved me. Hates me, is disgusted by me and wants me dead. He said over and over how I just don't get it. I've been duped for years and didn't even know it. At one point when he was starting to get to me and I said, oh it's not even worth going on.....his comment was "haven't seen your tombstone yet, so I'll wait to party."

Nice, huh? I told him nice try with his made up cr*p but, even he couldn't lie that well for 33 years! I said that would mean you not only "lied" to me, but to my family, your family, our friends, our pastors and church friends, The U.S. Army, our children, etc. I laughed and said no way that you could be the best actor to ever grace the earth and lie that much. And yes, I told him he was sick. And he needs to seek help fast. I also told him he was real close to me calling and having him taken to the hospital for an evaluation. With that he said "remember if I lose my job, you won't get any money from me." I told him then he'd better run, not walk to seek help. And that he was close to a breakdown where he could lose his job without it having anything to do with me.

I know they talk out of their butts, and they try to place all the blame on their spouse. I also know it's so much easier and a lot less pain for themselves if they can re-write history (even though it's totally unbelievable to anyone but themselves!) and claim to have been lying and faking it. I know they do all of this so they don't have to admit they are wrong and that they have done severe damage to their loved ones.

But, I'm not buying that this is all MLC. Or even depression. This just sounds crazy. Like there is something seriously wrong with him besides MLC. I know there is nothing "normal" about MLC, but how do you know there isn't something else wrong? How do you know it isn't Bipolar or something else? Since my husband's family is so dysfunctional and they are supporting him in walking away and abandoning his family and all his responsibilities, he thinks he's ok. He has his little group of so-called friends who believe everything he tells them. They don't know me or our kids, so why not believe him? He quit going to our church when he left, and doesn't talk to anyone from there, so there is no one else to confront him. When my sister told him he was wrong, he just blew that off that my family would support me and say anything. He's forgotten that he always said my sister was the little sister he never had. They were always close; always able to talk to each other. Now, he blows her off.

Yes, I am really upset tonight. I have no job, I will lose my house if there isn't a miracle before then, my car is busted, and the finance company calls me every day for being late on payments and threatened to take my car away from me. I am completely overwhelmed with my pitiful life. Although it did occur to me that I have the makings of a great country song! LOL!

I have been trying to detach, but I'm not really good at it. I keep telling myself I need to completely leave him alone, and not ask for his help, but it's hard to do after 33 years. When something goes wrong, he's the first person I think of to fix things.....cause he always has. And I never had to ask anyone else. Heck, I don't even know who to ask! And since I'm so stinking broke, I can't afford anyone else. He's cheap labor, even though I have to put up with his hatred and bad attitude.

So, now I am wondering what do you do if you think it's more than MLC? I know that untreated depression is dangerous. And, h is sliding fast down the abyss! I don't want to just ignore his behavior and then beat myself up forever if he cracks up or worse. But, I also know he won't listen to anything I say and his friends are too wasted and self-absorbed and let's face it, not too bright, to ever consider there might be something wrong with him! This sitting around waiting for him to hit rock bottom and flip out completely is torture!

And I know that is what God is trying to teach me. To wait. To not jump in and rescue him. To let him crash on his own and reap the consequences. Unfortunately, it means I also reap the consequences. And God wants me to ignore Satan when he sits on my shoulder telling me my h means everything he's telling me. I confess that sometimes I listen to him for a little while. But, not too long. I come to my senses and remind him who he is. As my daughter liked to say when she was little......"he's a loser, and a liar, and his house is on fire!"

Um, duh. They do that on purpose and if you step back, it does kind of make sense in the bigger picture. If they didn't change friends they really wouldn't be able to do what they are doing right? But keep watching and you will see them cycle through friends. In fact, like teenagers, if you act like you like them it goes faster sometimes Not saying you should, but just sayin' because that would short-circuit some of his needed learning. He has to learn these things as he relives his issues and tries to make different choices or come to some sort of peace with the ones he has made.



I know what you mean. I really do. One thing I struggled with even this morning is the sadness I feel. I read another post about their own trip through MLC and could see how frightening and maddening it can be for the person going through it let alone the spousal unit. I don't feel sorry any longer. I realize now that she made her choices and that she is doing what she is doing because of that. It's hard to realize they make a choice to go down this road after so long knowing them as a different person. But what you describe is EXACTLY what I've seen - leaving church, making new friends (losers) and saying mean and hurtful things designed to slice me to ribbons inside.
But as I look at your post and even my own situation a few things stand out:

1) of course it's hard. You have been married for a very long time. Your identity and friendship circles are structured around that life. Right now, that life doesn't exist and the possibility exists that it never will again. You don't know at this point, but you need to live regardless. You are very wise and are able to see a lot of things. You academically see a lot of things but are hesitant to internalize and accept. I get that. Don't beat yourself up for thinking like that. Just try to redirect your thoughts elsewhere. Start making a list three times a day for the things you are grateful for. Focus on the good things in life. Some exercise similar to that will help your PMA greatly.
2) you are correct. You and everyone else cannot say anything to him to "wake him up" nor would you want to. Why? Because if you did it would just start all over again in the future. No shortcuts. Really. I didn't believe the time-lines before. They are what they are however and you cannot change them. At all.
3) Does he have something other than MLC going on? There is no way to tell and you cannot make him go. I've gone down this road as well. Almost had her committed. Thought very hard about it. But in the end I did not and I think that was the right call. They act crazy around us. Around others? Who knows?
4) The friends. The derelicts, wanna-be's, losers, etc. Yep, all part of it. If he's like mine, you'll find that those friends come and go. Sometimes fast and sometimes not fast enough. A lot like watching a teenager growing up, right? You won't approve of his friends. He wouldn't listen to you about it anyway. He would dig his heels in and be friends with them to be spiteful.
5) His hatred? I suggest not responding when you can. See what happens. Responding to the texts? The MLC'r needs fuel to propel them through. He's burning you for that fuel. What happens if that is not an option? They have to find it elsewhere. By that I mean they search other friends. They need to do it, but not at your expense. It'll tear you up and you'll be a crazy mess. And exhausted. And that won't do anyone any good.

My advice is to detach. Get a life. Make new friends. Exercise. You cannot change him. Sounds repetitive and to some degree it is. It also has many meanings for many people. But truthfully, you should not feel sorry for him - he is getting what he needs. The pain he feels is needed to force change. Growth hurts. By design I suspect.

When they are in this situation, they try SO hard to hurt you. That is not healthy for you. I'm not sure they can help it but they know better than anyone how to do it. Keep some distance.

One thing that has also helped me is to join a support group here locally. The online is nice, but social interaction is important. I found a meetup group that really worked out well here in Raleigh. It's strange how I can start the story and others can finish it as if they knew her. Unnerving a bit.

AJM

Hey CK. Just thinking about you. Hope you are doing well!

AJ

I know this hurts, my H has said similar things to me. Not that he hopes I die, but that he never loved me, it's all my fault, he faked it for years (emphasis is on the YELLING of FOR YEARS, FOR YEARS, DO YOU HEAR ME, FOR YEARS!!!)

Anyway, it hurts, but if you want your H back, I really feel as if you should be validating his feelings, or just walking away and saying "don't talk to me like that." Do not get dragged into his crazy, that's what he wants. He will use it to remember how angry you are. Flip it around, make him realize how strong and sane you are, that you're a pillar of strength and a beacon of light for him.

Old timers, correct me if I'm wrong.