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Hey Clinging - It was the end of July last year. She filed in August.

Yeah, I'm on a generally upward trajectory.

At some point I stripped the info out of my signature - I guess I should add it back. I guess after my boys had a birthday, I moved out of the house, etc. it was all inaccurate.

Anyway, we had mediation tonight. Holy crap. So, I heard on the drive home that I'm an a$$hole, she hates my guts, and that D was the best decision she's made because now she sees my core.

Yea.

So, we separated our finances previously - or more specifically, I did - and when W heard tonight that I had several thousand dollars in checking from a recent bonus, she got really upset.

But the kicker was this - W stared asking about how I came up with the number for the assets I brought into the marriage. I bought a house in '98, and we got married in '99. I had contended that the down-payment was pre-marriage equity, but the mediator said that what should be considered my share is the equity we got out of the house when we sold it - which was much more. So, W's shares of the assets went down substantially.

She was very emotional about the whole thing. And in the end, she said she wanted to go to court anyway - I think she sees that as a way of scaring / hurting me.

She's gotten to a "I've given up everything" frame of mind - given up her life to take care of kids - now she's giving up her house, etc... It's kind of heartbreaking to hear her say things that imply she regrets our marriage so intently.

Dear God, how did we get here...

I'm dreading every step in the process, but also curious about it. I guess that's my reporter background. I've gotten all kinds of advice on the divorce process but won't really know until I go through it.

Mediation is going to be interesting because I'm not going to budge on joint physical custody. I can't imagine have to ride home with W after mediation. That had to be awful.

In a way, this all will be better once the process is done because then there won't be all this posturing. Last night, in my case, is a good example. D11 had a play and W and D7 had tickets and I bought my own.

The theater seated us together. The play ended at 9:30 p.m. and W still had to get D11 home, cleaned up and to bed.

It would have made sense for me to take D7 to my place and get her to bed.

I didn't ask because it wasn't my night and I believe her L has told her not to ask me for help because I could use it in a custody fight. I also hesitated because I'm not totally out of the "she has to feel the consequences" stage.

And the money front. Four years ago I started putting money into Sharebuilder.com. It's a sight where you can buy partial shares of companies instead of having to invest in large lots.

It was up to $4,000 last year.

After I moved out, an old root canal snapped off and I needed a tooth implant. Well, that's $2,200 and not covered by insurance. Plus, of course, W continued to move toward a D and I needed money for a retainer.

It was a joint account -- but I drained it. I couldn't afford taking on a loan for the tooth implant. I still ended up borrowing $1,000 from my credit union for the final part of the retainer.

I'm guessing that'll be an issue once we begin talking finances. My point will be that I would have had to take out loans and since there's no legal separation W would have been on the hook for half anyway. Better to just pay it off.

I've since opened a Sharebuilder account just in my name. It's how I plan to buy a house in two years -- if W doesn't lose ours to foreclosure, which remains a worry.

Well, I'll offer that piece of advice to anyone that wants it... drive separately to your mediation session. Yeah.

Afterward, she cried much of the way, when we were getting close to dropping her off she said "I want to get away from you as soon as possible." Here, I guess I kind of thought that we were working together to get through all this crap, it was going to be a relief, but that was pretty naive of me.

I talked to her this morning, and we exchanged a couple of emails today about compromises. I pointed out that I thought the mediator did the math wrong at one point in my favor, and that it should be corrected.

Clinging, damn straight, don't budge on joint physical custody. My understanding was that in my state, joint legal and physical custody is the norm, with the variable being the % of time spent with each parent - which affects the support calculations.

That's a hard one with taking D7 or not - at some level, you're still a team of co-parents - but it's tough to know. I find that the old familiarity with each other in parenting is gone. I suppose that at some point, some goodwill gestures will be a good thing.

I have a hard time with the "feel the consequences" thing, because I suspect for me it becomes "justify the anger"... I don't know man - not sure it's worth it.

The money thing - yeah that's tough too. With the bonus thing, mediator suggested that W should receive a quarter of it, and I demonstrated in the checking statement that I'd already pumped much more money into the joint checking for her to use, paid off her credit card, paid the mortgage, etc. None of this really seemed to make an impact. And on the other hand, we haven't had support set up, a lot of stuff on the credit card was mundane living expenses (including food for the kids). It's really hard to know where the line is to make an argument, as to what's fair, the data isn't clear. It's kind of hard for me I guess - I'm an engineer, and I want to apply rules to the numbers - where W is coming from a much more emotional point as to what she deserves.

Anyway, seems your point is valid - since there's no legal separation, you both own the debt. But I'm no expert.

It's hard to know what's "right". I don't feel particularly self justified, I'm just trying navigate this. And when the emotions come in, it screws everything up. The whole "you decided to leave, face the consequences" thing doesn't help. And I don't think her "I gave up everything to have your babies" thing helps either. Funny, she said that she never thought of putting her name on the title of the first house because she didn't think of preparing for divorce. Who would have?? And then she says, "I'm such an idiot."

Didn't occur to me to intentionally keep her off of it either.

None of this you expect, plan for. Sheesh, should I feel like an idiot to marry her given the current situation?

So what's right? None of this is right. It's not fair that our marriage ended - not to us, not to the boys. It's not fair that we have to split everything up. It's not fair that the choices she made to have a family ultimately left her feeling unfulfilled. It seems that any choice now, any agreement, is making the best of a crappy situation. So where's the line between looking out for your interests, and being a bastard? I don't want to be a bastard. I don't want to be a fool either. I don't know.

What I do know is that going through this process just seems to make things worse and worse. I can just hope there is healing afterward.

I'm rambling.

I have no idea what to do with myself this weekend. It's really strange not going home to a family.

I need more friends that are available to do things. Seemed like I never had to think about this when I was in my 20s and single. When I'm done with this post and I walk out of the door from work, I have no idea what to do.

How are you guys going about building a life?

The first Saturday I was out of the house and had nothing to do ... had to be the worst day of my life. Worse maybe even than the day my mom died because I had W there to help me get through it.

That day I called a friend and said let's go golfing and then I moped around the course.

While playing, a former co-worker called and asked if I could fill in in a softball tournament.

I said sure, I've got no plans. So I played two games. We got waxed and then I went home --- well, my friend's house -- and took a sleeping pill.

A few good things happened to me. I started working for a company on the weekends that puts on running races. They put up the tents, barricades, timing and such the day before and then clean it all up on Saturdays.

I worked 10 weekends last summer, making $350 per weekend. The money came in handy but just being busy was even better because I didn't have a lot of social options yet.

As the summer went on, I found a few things to do. I hung out with my younger coworkers a bit. I was working so much and once I got my apartment I had the girls every other weekend so time started to fill up.

I also joined a really large evangelical church and started doing a marriage rebuilders class on Tuesdays.

I learned a lot about myself and my role in the breakup. Plus I had a group of people going through the same thing to talk to. That lasted 10 weeks.

I moved out on Mother's Day. As word got out I started getting more social options. Co-workers. Old friends. Stuff has started popping up.

To me, it was like being back in high school when I'd just get on the phone to figure out what was going on.

I hadn't done that in years. But now I'm constantly looking around for things to do and checking with others to see if they are doing something.

I still hate it. I still really just wish I could go home and lay on the couch and watch a movie with W like we did in the early days of the M.

Gardener was telling me I should take some time to myself and just relax and think things through. That doesn't work for me. When I'm alone I start thinking what a waste this is and my brain starts making jumps and leaps.

I mean tonight, as D7 really got into her games, I started thinking aoout my dad. My parents divorced when I was 12. For a few years, my dad was still a big part of my life. By the time I started junior college, I wasn't seeing him much anymore. By the time I transferred to a 4-year school I went into a stretch where I didn't see him for three years.

He died two years after I graduated. I'm sure he never meant to fade away. I can't remember how much of it was his life getting in the way or me just going through typical growing up stuff.

Too many thoughts at times. I really should get the girls to bed.

Bill,I went through mediation, too. Almost wish I hadn't despite the cheaper cost. Frankly, I found the process did make things worse and worse, unfortunately.Ramble on. That's what we're here for.Really strange. I've found that part doesn't change much. Glad the tension's gone and I am discovering - and enjoying - some of the advantages of living alone where I can.Because all our friends were "out there", too. Now, they're settled, they're home, they're nesting. Like you and I were just a few short months ago. When Marriage, Family and Home become the center of your universe and it's pulled out from under your feet, it's debilitating.Frankly, I'm doing more 180s that GAL. 180s like talk and chat with everyone I come into contact with, and doing anything that feels odd or fearful or not me. I've had to postpone any real GAL due to dismal financial sitch X walking out and subsequent D left me with. But, hewy, since D,for the first time in 16 months she's giving me money towards the house expenses. Thanks to the formula my state uses, she now gives me a whopping $240/month or about 1/7 of what she used to contribute. When that turns around, I will do more.

For now, I look for no-money fun: museums, parks, school plays. Joined a Hiking Club On Meet-Up - check out Meet-Up, Bill. And I just joined a Swing Dance weekly Meet-Up. Joined a gym instead of using my equipment downstairs. Get out of the house and chat with people at the gym. I seek out family and friends now more than I used to, another 180, almost pushy: "What are you doing this afternoon/evening/tonight? Nothing? Good. I'm coming over/meet me at, etc."

Met a woman at Starbucks last week. Chatted and fifteen minutes later we were out having breakfast, talking for 90 minutes. It went nowhere, far too different backgrounds and interests, but hey, I manned up with my nads out and had a date in fifteen minutes. 180-fantasy land, for sure. Well, Bill, now I'm rambling. Go out. Just go out. Get out of the house. Do things. Anything. Learn to enjoy doing things alone. You won't be alone for long.

Hey guys -

Thanks for the responses - yeah, I was doing OK with the GALing in general - did an open mic last month, have been going out to dinner with friends, going out to see friends' bands, etc. I've got one buddy (my band buddy) that I've been hanging out with a lot - he's still single. Come to think if it, Jan / Feb I was doing an OK job of it. But somehow, it hit me tonight - I really have nothing to do.

The other thing is I've been spending a lot of time on the phone, talking to old friends, family, etc. I'm not sure if that's really GALing, but it's contact.

Looks like I'm going to see the boys tomorrow, finish science projects. I talked to W tonight, things are a lot calmer. I'm not sure if any repair has happened, but at least we're talking. She had taken migraine medicine (meaning that she's really struggling with all this) so she was really mellow.

She said something like, the Bill she knew was so generous, nothing like what she's seeing now. I know that's from her perceptive, but it's really sad to me that what respect and good will we still have is eroding. I hate it.

I don't know Clinging, I spent plenty of weekends last summer / fall basically sitting in a chair thinking.

I've spent plenty of time here recently, reading, playing guitar, etc. I've got plenty to DO (of course, here alone).

I guess it's a matter of feeling that it's Friday night and there's nobody to be with - to go home to -

Anyway, I'll get up in the morning and walk to Starbucks - same as I've done many weekend mornings.

When I get back in the house, I'll have plenty to do with working on the house and yard. But again - that will be time alone.

Well, I have done it - called up my friends and said, hey, when are you free for dinner / lunch. I know what to do.

I have that feeling, though, that it's not the same. That being home with my wife, my family, was meaningful - hanging out with friends at a bar is less so.

Still rambling I guess. This is not a very coherent post.

Well, night, guys - Bill

It's all still new. Eventually you figure out that this is your life now. For better or worse. The longer it goes the more the old life fades away -- even if you don't want it to.

The post is very coherent. It's what I still feel all the time. Thursday night me, W and D7 sat together at D11's opening night of her youth play.

It went well. After all of the kids were in the lobby. D7 was getting autographs and then -- I went home to my apartment.

That is still really strange. Even more so for the kids.

I still have huge stabs of pain and loneliness.

One thing I try to remember is that in terms of marital loneliness, W changed towards me in January 2007.

We'd had a great Christmas in 2006, the best in years. Things seemed to be great between us. Then in January 2007 our physical relationship just stopped for the most part.

A lot of stresses hit W all at once and I kept trying different things to rekindle stuff that in the end just pushed her farther away.

So in terms of loneliness, 99.9 percent of the time since the beginning of 2007 I felt lonely sleeping right next to W.

Now at least I can imagine finding someone who will love me.

Your boys are 9. I haven't reread your sitch. Hopefully you'll get at leat 50/50 with them. A nice thing is you are never truly alone when you have kids. There's always time coming up with them to look forward to.

My opinion is that your W had this all planned out; her script and you would be really generous, she would have no financial consequences, everything was going to be perfect. And now she's starting to realize that was a fantasy. Of course now that her fantasy isn't playing out, does she do any self-evaluation or blame you for that? That's typical WAS from what I've seen...

My X had fantasies like that too; he was going to have more money after the D, not have to pay any child support or alimony, he'd be happier, the kids would be happier after the D, I would meet someone, I'm sure something like he'd have the perfect R with OW (he didn't tell me that part though), basically the D was like Disneyland in his mind. And I've seen other WAS here say stuff like that.

My take on it was I always try to do the right thing for the kids, protect myself, but nothing punitive or vengeful. I pray about it. You can't control and shouldn't care what your W thinks about you. That's part of detaching that you need to work on. You do the right thing, and what people think about you shouldn't matter, b/c you're doing the right thing...

Yeah, and take separate cars from now on....

In my case, W was never really involved in the finances. She would spend, spend, spend and I'd have to figure out ways to keep us above water.

When we had our final blowup and she told me to leave I violated DB rules by leaving because I thought she would not be able to handle the house.

It's big. Hard to maintain. It has a double yard with hills making it difficult to mow. It has a number of things in need of repair or improving.

I suspected W hadn't really thought this out. She just figured everything would be fine. She'd have to make some cutbacks, but she must make enough money to support herself.

Well, now it's a few months later and she continues to bounce checks, turn the girls down for things, complain about money.

So the D process is going to be painful. She's going to go after every dime.

My hope is that a judge won't feel it's fair after every two weeks her amount of money is 225 percent higher than mine.

Of course, that's the finance part. Socially, I have no idea if she misses me at all. When I see her face, I see nothing there but cold indifference.

Yeah, you're probably right. She started in the beginning with, if there's anyone that could do this amicably, it's us. We don't fight. We respect each other, etc. All that. She thought it was going to be easy.

It's hard to deal with.

Everyone I talk to is amazed at how much she's getting; she says everyone tells her she would get more in court. I know the mediator is helping us find the middle.

But this - now - is finally when she gets to, I hate you. You're not the person I thought you were. All that. So yeah - I guess she was expecting me to just continue to give while she walks away.


I hope so. I was telling a friend today, I don't know where the line is between protecting my interests and being an a$$hole. I suppose that's because W is making me feel that way. She says I hurt her so badly (I believe this comment was specifically about the mediation meeting).

I don't know. Well, my friend responded, divorce is ugly.

I don't know any other way to go about it. I showed up prepared, with the documentation necessary. I asked questions - is XYZ customary, what are the tax implications, etc. Every question I asked, W took as me trying to screw her out of more money. They're just questions.

I don't know what I expect out of a post-divorce relationship. What I should expect. I don't want animosity. I guess I want something left. Some friendship...

I guess the best answer is to just get through this and pick up the pieces.

People have told me, she's not your friend. Friends don't put each other through this. Obviously, I'm not her friend either right now. But I didn't want this.

I spent much of the day today with my buddy, so I guess GALing. We met his mother in town for dinner, but before we met up, I did the idiotic thing of going and seeing the place, the room, that we had our wedding reception in. The door of the room we stayed in. It was really too much. Made it feel like it was yesterday that we were getting married.

Went to a place for dinner that I used to go to when I was single, and took W to a number of times. I haven't been back there since those early days.

I don't know why I'm torturing myself doing these things. It seems like something inside me really wants to feel it, the grief.

I called her on the way home; she didn't pick up, but did call back. Funny. I said, I should be calling you, but I am. And she said, well, I shouldn't be calling you back, but I did. Something like that. We talked for awhile. She said, part of her wants to stay close to me, but part of her just can't.

So that's my GALing for the day. Pretty pathetic. Well, I we did go to Guitar Center (which is really getting lame), went back and had an impromptu band practice. And every minute I feel that damn hurting hole in me. Do you just decide to stop feeling it?? Stop thinking about it? Yes, I feel stronger. I feel separate. I feel like I've gained a lot of personal strength, perspective, etc. from the experience. But I don't feel whole yet. Somewhere I heard, maybe DivorceCare, some made-up formula that for every year of marriage it takes X amount of time to recover. A friend told me that it took him 6 months, after the actual D, to feel just kind of OK, a year to really feel OK. And right now the hurt is still happening.

Sorry guys to indulge in this. I don't know if it's a matter of willing myself on, maybe it is. I don't know if all this is weakness, dwelling, or healthy grieving and processing.

Well Karen, you put your finger on it. I'm still detaching. Still. I'm OK much of the time, but when the turbulence comes, I feel it.

Still not like it was though, last summer and fall.

Rambling.

Clinging - yeah that's scary, with the finances and the house. My W hasn't done a great job of maintaining the house either, but she's surely had enough to deal with. Anyway, lots for me to do when I move back in.

I wonder how that works - if you have an asset like a house when you file, and she's responsible for losing it (and how do you define her vs. your responsibility) - does she owe you your part of the value somehow? I know I'm legally restricted from selling investments.

OK I've got to get to bed. Sleep well all -