They are going to try to get my W to sit down with them and me together. She is all about that church now, so I'm hoping she will listen to them and agree to meet.
This is an evangelical christian church, right? The one that's giving your W all the faith that she's found through having an affair?
You seem like a logical guy, so let me give you some logic. People like this do not see hypocrisy and lying as being a problem with their faith. If anything, the biggest liars and hypocrites I've ever met are the ones who proclaim the most loudly that they are in like flynn with God.
They aren't.
You need to take time and see this for what this is. Your wife is using God in the same way she might use shampoo or makeup: to make herself look better.
Look at the facts. Baptism is supposed to be a profoundly moving experience right. On Easter, no less. And the thing that your wife does to show how much her faith means to her is to invite a man that she's having an affair with to witness it. Along with you, the one she's married to? She was so moved by the experience that she goes on facebook to put pictures of this instead of spending the most holy day of a Christian's year by spending time with her kids? Who needed to see this pics? Obviously, not God, he was there. Who is she trying to impress with her photo shoot?
And think about the message you told about Jesus taking punishment before his death. The moral of the story isn't about how much he suffered. That's not the lesson to learn. The lesson is it illustrates how cruel people can be to one another. It shows how far a person will go to degrade another. The reason it happened to Jesus is for you to learn not to let other's degrade you. He went through that punishment for you.
You are throwing his sacrifice back in Gods face by not learning that lesson.
But back to my original point. The debate you are having - or the one you want to have with her pastor - is that she's not acting like a Christian by being hypocritical. These types of Christian accept hypocrisy, it's not a problem to them. They don't see the splinter in their own eyes while they are pointing out the logs in anothers. If anything, this wingnut attachment to letting God lead the way encourages them to be even more hypocritical.
The more they sin, the more they can repent later. In loud ceremonies, no doubt with pictures put up on fb. Your wife hasn't found God.
God is love; He makes us see the best in ourselves and treat each other with kindness.
He sent his only son so we wouldn't have to suffer. God doesn't put obstacles in our path to make us stronger. He gave humans the greatest of gifts, free will.
God is not a prankster who thinks this ridiculous behavior by your wife is what will bring you closer to him. If anything, it is with a deep sadness that God looks down and sees all these false witnesses influencing your wife, and more so, a greater sadness to see her falling victim to it. But it is because he loves us so much that he allows us to make these mistakes. God will not step in, but I bet he hopes that you and your wife see this whole issue is fraudulent.
What's that line: People will know we are Christians by our love?
Not by facebook photos and affairs. Snap out of it. Use the gifts God gave you. Use your free will to step away from these evil people.
They are going to try to get my W to sit down with them and me together. She is all about that church now, so I'm hoping she will listen to them and agree to meet.
This is an evangelical christian church, right? The one that's giving your W all the faith that she's found through having an affair?
You seem like a logical guy, so let me give you some logic. People like this do not see hypocrisy and lying as being a problem with their faith. If anything, the biggest liars and hypocrites I've ever met are the ones who proclaim the most loudly that they are in like flynn with God.
They aren't.
You need to take time and see this for what this is. Your wife is using God in the same way she might use shampoo or makeup: to make herself look better.
Look at the facts. Baptism is supposed to be a profoundly moving experience right. On Easter, no less. And the thing that your wife does to show how much her faith means to her is to invite a man that she's having an affair with to witness it. Along with you, the one she's married to? She was so moved by the experience that she goes on facebook to put pictures of this instead of spending the most holy day of a Christian's year by spending time with her kids? Who needed to see this pics? Obviously, not God, he was there. Who is she trying to impress with her photo shoot?
And think about the message you told about Jesus taking punishment before his death. The moral of the story isn't about how much he suffered. That's not the lesson to learn. The lesson is it illustrates how cruel people can be to one another. It shows how far a person will go to degrade another. The reason it happened to Jesus is for you to learn not to let other's degrade you. He went through that punishment for you.
You are throwing his sacrifice back in Gods face by not learning that lesson.
But back to my original point. The debate you are having - or the one you want to have with her pastor - is that she's not acting like a Christian by being hypocritical. These types of Christian accept hypocrisy, it's not a problem to them. They don't see the splinter in their own eyes while they are pointing out the logs in anothers. If anything, this wingnut attachment to letting God lead the way encourages them to be even more hypocritical.
The more they sin, the more they can repent later. In loud ceremonies, no doubt with pictures put up on fb. Your wife hasn't found God.
God is love; He makes us see the best in ourselves and treat each other with kindness.
He sent his only son so we wouldn't have to suffer. God doesn't put obstacles in our path to make us stronger. He gave humans the greatest of gifts, free will.
God is not a prankster who thinks this ridiculous behavior by your wife is what will bring you closer to him. If anything, it is with a deep sadness that God looks down and sees all these false witnesses influencing your wife, and more so, a greater sadness to see her falling victim to it. But it is because he loves us so much that he allows us to make these mistakes. God will not step in, but I bet he hopes that you and your wife see this whole issue is fraudulent.
What's that line: People will know we are Christians by our love?
Not by facebook photos and affairs. Snap out of it. Use the gifts God gave you. Use your free will to step away from these evil people.
Thanks, knittedscarf, for your reply. As a Catholic, my church's doctrine conflicts with some of what you say, but that debate is for another board.
It is not an Evangelical Christian church. It is a generic, non-denominational Christian church, many of which you see all over the country. 80% of the members are actually Catholics, who have an issue with the Catholic church I guess.
They are not at all like you describe, I've met many of them. And while I have some disagreements about what a Sunday "service" should be, those who run the church are serious about faith, and not the phony, demonstrative hypocrites the bible denounces.
Only a couple church members know about our situation, and the ones that do are appalled at my W's behavior. They are not judgmental, but they do not condone it one bit.
So the only one to blame for the evil behavior is my W and the OM, who both claim to be serious about Christianity, but only those parts that don't make them feel bad. Namely the "God hates divorce" and "Thou shalt not commit adultery" parts. Her actions are inexcusable and hypocritical, you are absolutely right. But every time I move to bail, something pulls me back. Maybe eventually, when it is the right time, there will be nothing pulling me back. And then I'll know.
I don't know if the church pastors can make a difference, but my W loves that church to death, so maybe she'll listen to them. She's avoided speaking to them this long, as she knows what she's going to hear.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
This whole religious thing and the hypocrisy we see but they don't, is imo, b/c Your w and OM also use their feelings of "love" and passion for each other NOT as signs of a new found attraction and middle aged MLC type of addictive behavior BUT as evidence that it is somehow from God. They want to wrap it nicely. Nothing tawdry here folks!! "THIS IS REAL" and look, she's so enlightened her h AND her new found love are both here blessing it all....isn't it all so beautiful???
If your w were not married, I'd love to buy that, AND yet I'd still say "slow down" and get to know this OM....but oops, she IS already m and there are children. I could not do this to my kids unless my h hit me AND there'd be no need to lie then. Good thing that pastor knows now. Let a real spokesman for the Big Guy do some real talking. I think he'll plant seeds and that in SOME time, she'll wake up OR she'll quickly choose another avenue and stop going this religious route. But the seeds may find dry soil for some time. My instinct says she won't wake up for a long time. Like over a year. Just something I cannot articulate but yes, I do think it'll happen but have no picture on where you'll be on your journey then.
The serenity prayer is wonderful. But do and say it all, for it does not stop at asking God to grant you the serentity to "accept the things we cannot change"; it also asks for the "courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference" so may God grant you all that and more.
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am sorry to hear your sitch has not improved. I will re state what I said before. "IF" she is serious about her faith her actions will reflect it, not words. The "biblical" way to reconciliation is through confession, repentance, and restitution. Having said that, I do not expect us who live in this "world" to see this happen very often nor am I advocating she would do it to you. What I am alludeing to is; she should do it before God if she were serious.
I think some fantastic points are made on this thread, and the real issue is; right now her "faith" is smoke and mirrors! I also see you are handling this sitch with dignity and respect for yourself and the kids. I do not have any other points to offer at this time but you are on the right road in my humble opinion. Guard your heart at this time and be anxious for nothing knowing the Good Lord will grant your prayers according to his will.
The serenity prayer is a wonderful suggestion.
Married:10 years D final 8/28/08 10 minutes is all it took Life goes on and DB was no small part in growing from the Divorce!
This whole religious thing and the hypocrisy we see but they don't, is imo, b/c Your w and OM also use their feelings of "love" and passion for each other NOT as signs of a new found attraction and middle aged MLC type of addictive behavior BUT as evidence that it is somehow from God. They want to wrap it nicely. Nothing tawdry here folks!! "THIS IS REAL" and look, she's so enlightened her h AND her new found love are both here blessing it all....isn't it all so beautiful???
If your w were not married, I'd love to buy that, AND yet I'd still say "slow down" and get to know this OM....but oops, she IS already m and there are children. I could not do this to my kids unless my h hit me AND there'd be no need to lie then. Good thing that pastor knows now. Let a real spokesman for the Big Guy do some real talking. I think he'll plant seeds and that in SOME time, she'll wake up OR she'll quickly choose another avenue and stop going this religious route. But the seeds may find dry soil for some time. My instinct says she won't wake up for a long time. Like over a year. Just something I cannot articulate but yes, I do think it'll happen but have no picture on where you'll be on your journey then.
The serenity prayer is wonderful. But do and say it all, for it does not stop at asking God to grant you the serentity to "accept the things we cannot change"; it also asks for the "courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference" so may God grant you all that and more.
j-
The man who inspired her baptism suggested reading from the bible to her. He used that for his wife, and she had 2 kids with another man while still married to him and he was in prison.
I did that today as she was over to watch the kids while I went to a meeting. I told her that there is a light inside her but it is clouded by evil. That she's a good woman but evil is trying to take her down. While I'm sure she felt awkward, she agreed to hold my hand and listen as I read to her. After that we had some nice conversation; no R talk.
She did mention and I quote "I LOVE that church. I would do ANYTHING for it."
Little does she know she is soon going to be asked to, as the pastor and a few others start calling her out on her affair...
Stay tuned.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
Yesterday W and I spoke at length about me reading scripture to her, and her baptism. She said she feels like I'm trying to "drive out the devil within her" paraphrasing some comments I had made before. I told her I'm just trying to engage in a nice intimate activity to bring God into our relationship.
She conflicted herself several times, saying "be patient with me" and "can't we handle this like adults" (in response to me telling her I almost called a lawyer to begin divorce proceedings) all in the space of about 5 minutes.
W shared that she feels violated that I went into her church and sat down with a man she felt was helping her. And now she feels that she can no longer turn to him. "That was MY piece of Heaven, and now he's helping YOU!" Just another example of how she chooses to distance herself from anyone who does not feed her the "I'm OK, you're OK" message.
Of course SHE was the one who shared him with ME, telling me about him and how he wanted to meet me. And HE invited me to meet with him.
She said that is her problem to deal with, and does not want me to feel I can't go to see him. But I think it is incredibly selfish, and likely a part of her depression, that she would not be proud to share someone who is so happy to bring their story of redemption to others.
I can almost imagine what her reaction will be when her church's pastor talks to the OM or her about the situation. She will distance herself from him too, probably feeling more resentment towards me, and blaming me for turning her church that she loves so much against her.
One day she'll wake up and realize that everyone was trying to help her. I hope that day comes soon, because I don't know how much more gas I have left in the tank.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
I am not telling you what to do here. I certainly have no right to do that. I will ask you to take a little time to reflect on what your wife is saying TO you.
I am not in any way saying she is right, but she is disclosing a little bit of how she FEELS. I can't imagine how painful it is for you to know about the OM in the picture.
This is from my perspective only, but here are a few things to consider based on comments above.
She told you she FEELS like you are trying to drive the devil out of her.
You rebutted her by saying "I'm just trying to...."
You talked (briefly) about a divorce lawyer.
She ASKED you to be patient with her.
She FEELS you violated her by going to the man at the church she FELT was helping her. And now she FEELS like she can no longer turn to him.
You can take or leave what I have to say, and I'm OK with that. But I think you may have an opportunity here.
Having OM in the picture is not good, but from a lot of what I read, sometimes a WAW will go to OM because she FEELS he is listening to her.
So, when your wife is telling you how SHE FEELS, consider not rebutting her, but just listen to her. She is disclosing a lot. What if you could be the guy who she FEELS comfortable disclosing her emotions to?
I am not Catholic, but share your basic beliefs. You have mentioned before if I remember correctly that you enjoy debate. Debate is a means of influence.
Is it possible that your best means of influence with your wife right now is with your ears?
Again, just food for thought from my perspective....
You have been giving me great advice on my thread and I appreciate it very much. IMO maybe you should step back and try to look at your sitch like you look at mine. You are trying to "drive the devil" out of your wife, so to speak. Trying to win her back by telling her this isn't what God wants. You know and I know it's not what God wants. Your W knows it too but doesn't want to admit it right now. She is spending her time telling herself this is what He wants.
Maybe it's time to leave her alone and think that you are not going to be there for her. For the kids, yes, not for her.
You are a lot further along in this than I am, but I can see myself following along. It would tear me apart to seperate and I still love my W but how much longer can this go on? She still won't accept resonsibility for anything, it's all my fault. Your W is convinced this is what God wants and doesn't sound like she has owned up to anything, either.
Time to leave her alone and only communicate about the kids. Just my opinion. We keep reading the only thing that gets through is when they think they will lose us and they can't keep us just hanging on forever. I know I'm not fully detached either but I think it's time for both of us.
I am not telling you what to do here. I certainly have no right to do that. I will ask you to take a little time to reflect on what your wife is saying TO you.
I am not in any way saying she is right, but she is disclosing a little bit of how she FEELS. I can't imagine how painful it is for you to know about the OM in the picture.
This is from my perspective only, but here are a few things to consider based on comments above.
She told you she FEELS like you are trying to drive the devil out of her.
You rebutted her by saying "I'm just trying to...."
You talked (briefly) about a divorce lawyer.
She ASKED you to be patient with her.
She FEELS you violated her by going to the man at the church she FELT was helping her. And now she FEELS like she can no longer turn to him.
You can take or leave what I have to say, and I'm OK with that. But I think you may have an opportunity here.
Having OM in the picture is not good, but from a lot of what I read, sometimes a WAW will go to OM because she FEELS he is listening to her.
So, when your wife is telling you how SHE FEELS, consider not rebutting her, but just listen to her. She is disclosing a lot. What if you could be the guy who she FEELS comfortable disclosing her emotions to?
I am not Catholic, but share your basic beliefs. You have mentioned before if I remember correctly that you enjoy debate. Debate is a means of influence.
Is it possible that your best means of influence with your wife right now is with your ears?
Again, just food for thought from my perspective....
Thanks for your comments, Glimmerman. After a year, I've pretty much tried everything, ears included. I am basically at the stage of "tell me why I shouldn't file right now"; feeling that I'm close to the point of throwing in the towel.
Something always stops me though.
I've listened to her, gone to Retrouvaille with her, detached from her, validated her, and she has bent but never broken.
Her joining a church, becoming a Christian, and saying she is going to commit to a faith is really the last hope.
I've gotten better at keeping my rebuttals to a minimum; I used to rebut everything. Doesn't seem to do much good though.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
