Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Proper way to issue an ultimatum?

Thank you once again for the info. I'm definitely going to use the wording suggested here. Just to clarify, at this point (4th infidelity/EA in 7 years), I'm NOT willing to go to MC with my H unless he goes to IC first. If that ends the M so be it. I am in IC for myself and my self admitted issues. But it seems obvious to me that my H has issues above and beyond our M, and unless he's going to address them, MC won't save our M.

Maybe this is a bad attitude...I don't know. I'm just not as gung ho as I used to be. Thanks again VERY much.

I am not a fan of IC at all when a M is in this much trouble. IC is too often used as exit strategizing with the IC's blessing. They just want their client to be" ha-a-a-a-py."

Are you sure you mean "ultimatum?"

Ultimatums do work if you are prepared to mean it and walk when your spouse lies to you yet again. If you cave after issuing an ultimatum, you will never be taken seriously again.

I believe you should walk anyway. Four A's in seven years??? Yikes! And I'll bet there are more than is being admitted. There usually are.

Good luck to you.

Thanks Kimmie. Well IF there is more to his EAs than I know about, how won't come forward with the info. Never has. I realize this.

I think I do mean "ultimatum". I think that me being the "doer" for so many years has enabled him to NOT address his own issue(s). And the irony of this is that even now I know he still thinks/wonders if that MY behavior somehow MADE him do what he does. Still trying to blame me. I definitely know that our M issues and to that extent some of my behavor contributes here, but that's different from ME being the reason he lies and has EAs.

In a nutshell, I am (was) very reactive. He is very intimidated by this and completely stonewalls/bottles up. I in turn would get more reactive, vicious circle. And long standing issues of not enough SF (made much worse by the EAs). He has what appear to be self esteem issues that make him want cell phone/text relationships with other women. He also appears to be in a MLC, which I think is to some extent fueled by the fact that he's approaching the age his father was when he passed away suddenly from a heart attack.

If he wanted to have a MC visit or two as a precursor to his definite, immediate IC, I would do that. Maybe I'm making a mistake here, I don't know. But I feel that HE NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING to show that he is going to own HIS issues, which would in turn make him capable of addressing OUR issues.

All of this question about IC has definitely crossed my mind, but not as much as it is after the comments here. Hmmm. Thanks, as always.

The plan I've been contemplating is to go dimmer/darker without actually stating my 'requirement' again. The requirement has been stated twice, but not with a time limit. So I don't feel I need to or should state it again, unless I use the wording Puppy mentioned above about "take the weekend to think about it and let me know on Monday".

I thought the darker/dimmer period would give me a chance to make sure I really mean the ultimatum and am ready to walk. It's (only) 8 weeks in though it feels like a life time. I'm definitely still on a roller coaster of my own feelings, but also know that I'm not going to do this for too long, whatever that means. Four months total? Six months total? Definitely not more than that.

Ultimately I wish he'd go to IC and make some real changes and the M would finally be better than it's ever been, due to EACH of us addressing our indivdual issues. My own IC has been very enlightening and exciting and acutally started by coincidence (or not) shortly before this D day. I know I'm in a much much better place w myself now, whether we stay M or not. I'm not sure I'd be surviving this fiasco if I hadn't started making progress on my own issues before this D day. I highly recommend "Dance of Intimacy" and "Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner, though the books are directed at women not men. I think men who could tolerate that aspect of the books would also benefit from them.

Thanks

MWD agrees with you Kimmie :

Taken from p 131 of DR :


Marital therapy requires very different skills than doing individual therapy. Individual therapists usually help people identify and process feelings. They assist them in achieving personal goals. "how do you feel about that" is their mantra.

Couples therapists on the other hand, need to be skilled in helping people overcome the differences that naturally occur when two people live under the same roof. They need to know what makes a marriage tick. A therapist can be very skilled as an individual therapist and be clueless about helping couples change.

Be careful amj. MWD has lots of horror stories about spouses that went to IC and the IC just validated an exit of the marriage for the client instead of finding a way to manage both.

The risk you take in sending your H to IC is that the IC may in no way act with a conscience to preserve the marriage. All they hear is your H's viewpoint and they will support THAT viewpoint in order to keep him coming back. They sympathize more than they do strategize.

MC and IC can work together if you have good therapists for both who do NOT act counterproductively.

What happens when the IC contradicts what the MC says? Your H is giong to take the one HE LIKES right now.. not the one that's productive for the marriage.

IN my opinion the MC viewpoint should always come first since its a more holistic approach... IC doens't take other family member's views into teh meeting so their views won't get accomodated to the same level a MC would. Not to mention many IC's aren't properly equippped with the tools to MANAGE those negotiations anyways.

Be VERY CAREFUL about directing him to an IC when your marriages is in so much trouble. Your H needs to LEARN how to BE a HUSBAND... THAT in my opinion is the biggest issue here -- How can he overcome his individual failings and act responsibly if he has no clue (and at this point its clear he has no clue) how to act as a responsible partner and husband.

MWD's DR has a lot of warnings about IC's and the damage they can potentially do to a marriage... read u on that.. i put some pp refs above for you.

I dno't reccomend IC unless he's being educated at how to be a HUSBAND at the same time by a GOOD FT.

Thanks Allen for all the info. The thing is, I think is DOES know how to be a husband. He just CHOOSES not to do it and have EAs. With all of our issues, we've been to MC in the past, many books, talks, etc. He's great is so many ways, which is the only reason it's hard to decide whether or not to try at our M. Actually, when he's having his EAs he's often (not so much this time) extra nice to me, b/c he's happier.

And I'm pretty sure he's having a MLC this time too.

Thanks again.

The fact is the way he treats his children's mother is a reflection of how he feels about his children.

Good parents don't treat their children's mother like dirt.

Consequences is what seems to be missing here.

If he can have his cake and eat it too.. he will.

I don't know if "happier" is the word I would use to describe someone in an affair... "euphoric" maybe, but not happier.

Affairs are addictions... and when he's on a high he will appear to be happier, but if this excitement of his is at the cost of his marriage, his children, his wife's feelings.. its a thoughtless indulgence that he needs to put a stop to or you need to throw some consequences his way. Consequences, not coddling, end addictions.

You can use the consequences as a yardstick. For me I started packing. I started collecting boxes and put all my things away. I also told my wife outright I would not be renewing the term on our mortgage which was due in three months. OM was gone before I was done packing and two months before the mortgage term was due.

You can visibly SHOW you mean BUSINESS by just taking actions that you put forward when yo uconfronted him.

If you tell him you want your marriage but if eh doens't stop you are getting a Lawyer and all that then start finding a lawyer, start collecting business cards, or whatever.

You can ACT on the consequences you confronted him with BEFORE you EXECUTE them. He will see you are DOING something and will SEE the clock is ticking.

He may know part way how to be a husband, but he does not know how to be a faithful one.

Being a good parent, a good provider, all of that overlaps with fidelity.

If he can't keep his pants on then he isnt' that great a provider... its like bringing home poisoned groceries.

Whatever husbandlike qualities he can demonstate, they are tainted with his dishonesty, thoughtlessness, and hurtful actions.

Good husband's dont' choose to cheat. They choose marriage and choose to respect their wife.

Each day he has to make that choice again, to be a good husabnd or a deadbeat.

Him doing "nice things" doens't make him a good husband... it just makes him remorseful. Feeling lousy about something while you do it does NOT make it any less hurtful.

The best thing to do when he's cheating is to refuse any thoughtful advances he's offering. When you accept a kind act while he's cheating, you enable him. He is essentially offering you a bribe to let him off the hook to continue the infidelity. He isnt' saying "here's these flowers, may I go cheat now", but when he cheats on you, comes home with flowers and YOU ACCEPT them, the transaction is there in his mind and he feels entitled.

My wife did that too... its partly their guilt, and partly a ubiquitous bribe for support of the affair. If you take that cup of coffee he makes you, or let him wash the car or anything to contribute to the marriage while he's cheating, its a BRIBE to get you to support the infidelity.

When he's cheating and offering you nice, throw it BACK at him and tell him you don't negotiate with cheaters. That puts a stop to the enabling on the spot.