First let me say that two weeks is like one grain of sand on a beach. Does that help to give you an idea of how much patient you will need? Okay, maybe not quite that comparison, but close. Men tend to think the WAW should just get over everything and be ready to be their old self and lay on the kisses & hugs......and it ain't gonna happen. She may try at first, but usually her true feelings win over and it's too hard for her to cover up. So, you have to give her much, much time.
You have got to stop with the R talks. It will only hurt you at this point. You seem to think that having a R talk will fix what is wrong, but it seldom does in these cases. If it is under the guidance of a professional then that may be different, but when it is one on one.....not good. I believe that time has a way of healing, but you need to exercise your changes also--or resentment and other problems will be pushed down and not dealt with. I'm not saying that you should never address any problems. I'm saying that she is not ready to hear a lot of talking. She doesn't want "talk", she wants to see changes.
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In the future, whenever you plan on going someplace, just make it more causual and say, "The kids and I are going to ______ if you would like to join us". This doesn't put as much pressure on her. I don't think you really realize how so many things are "pressure" to her and she's trying to hang in just as you are.
If you ask and then turn around and say it might be best if it were just you and the kids, that's not too comfortable.
*************************** You wanted to know about winning her respect back. That will mostly take time, but you've got to get started with a set of good consistant principles and try to think about what is important to her. What is unimportant to you could be VERY important to her. Let me give you an example:
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I did tell her that our friends dont mean anything. I admitted to not defending her, but I told her that they are just friends.
Let me tell you something and don't forget this.....EVER. A woman doesn't care if it is herd of cows in the pasture, you better come to her defense!! Nothing makes a woman feel lower than zero than for her man to laugh with others at her expense, or to say/do nothing in her defense. Don't say that person wasn't important.....THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE TO HER. The issue is they disrespeced her!
Now, if it is something in good taste that is funny and she laughs, that may be different, but you have to be realistic here and stay focused. (You know what I mean by it being in good taste and all good-hearted, right?) But if your W is not laughing, it wasn't funny to her, so even if what was said wasn't bad....at least stand by her and don't laugh with the others. Show a little support. However, I don't think what those people were doing or what you did was in good taste! But here's the main thing, if anyone (man or woman)says anything negative about your W....that's your clue to stick up for her. Depending on what is said, of course, you don't have to get into a fist fight, but you can use your place as her H to speak up. That is as good as being a knight in shinning armour. Unless she has no class at all, she will appreciate you be so gallant. (I hate these women who are ready to start pulling hair and rolling around on the ground like some kind of dogs!) You don't have to use bad language in order to defend her, but you can still get your point across in a firm way. Don't let it get far enough along to be ugly....stop it short.
That part you told about her own father told me a lot of what is eating at her. He shows disrespect for his own daughter! He acted like trash in her home. How low-class was that? So, she "needs" you to be her knight b/c her father sure wasn't. My suggestion would be if there is a next time....make it like....."My W's cooking is wonderful. It's too bad you don't appreciate what she did by cooking for you."
I believe that fathers influence their D's so strongly in their R's with their H's. This girl needs a hero, and she wants it to be you! I promise that puts her in the loving mood quicker than most anything.
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Why is it that only the bad stuff remains in the mind...
B/c she's been hurt so badly for so long. You said yourself that her own daddy was a S@B. She couldn't have had much self esteem or feel loved growing up. It will take a lot to overcome all she has suffered, but I bet you have what it takes. What do you think?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Why is it that only the bad stuff remains in the mind?
Think about it in terms of survival, don't think that your wife or you or anyone else is really so different in this area.
It's a survival mechanism, the brain associates bad things and bad feelings with things that can harm, hurt or kill you. What's the idea behind this? If bad things can kill or harm you, our brains are setup to remember these things and remind us to protect us.
If you miss out on remembering some good things, that's not going to kill you.
But forgetting about something that can harm or kill you, that's deadly. You have a built in auto-pilot mechanism for self-preservation and to also protect your children since they will most likely outlive you.
It's actually a good thing, without this survival mechanism, you would be dead.
ROBX, if you in my shoes, would you go on the trip with her knowing that the kids would want thier mother to be there as well? I dont know how you post someelse's comment.. so I copied and pasted.
I would go on 2 trips, both without her. How will she ever experience the possibility of your loss if you're always there?
Plus in some way regardless if you admit it or not, you are using your kids as the excuse for her to come - you want her there, do you see this deep down? The part of you that's needy, insecure, wanting her so badly, hoping that maybe a trip will spark something in her to love you again the way she used to, etc. etc. etc.
Take a trip with the kids without her, go somewhere fun, take lots of pics and video and face the fear of doing things without her. You're going to have to face this sooner or later.
Then take a trip for yourself, no wife, no kids, just you. Go somewhere tropic: Dominican Republic, Mexico, Cuba, etc. Experience 7 days of sun, sand, drinking, eating without a care in the world, get some rays, build up a nice tan and treat yourself - when is the last time you did this?
What's the idea behind this?
Reclaim your individuality. Treating yourself regularly gets you used to feeling good, validating yourself internally instead of waiting for scraps & morsel of loves & affection from your wife because that's what you're probably used to. Once you start pumping up that self-esteem, self-value, self-respect to the levels that they should be at, you won't settle for crap anymore, you'll respect yourself enough to say:
"hey this isn't good enough for me anymore, if you really don't value me or the relationship you have with me, I think it's time to part ways and open up my life to someone smarter who knows what they have when they have it! Your loss not mine."
Why is it that only the bad stuff remains in the mind?
Think about it in terms of survival, don't think that your wife or you or anyone else is really so different in this area.
It's a survival mechanism, the brain associates bad things and bad feelings with things that can harm, hurt or kill you. What's the idea behind this? If bad things can kill or harm you, our brains are setup to remember these things and remind us to protect us.
If you miss out on remembering some good things, that's not going to kill you.
But forgetting about something that can harm or kill you, that's deadly. You have a built in auto-pilot mechanism for self-preservation and to also protect your children since they will most likely outlive you. It's actually a good thing, without this survival mechanism, you would be dead.
Excellent!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, first step completed.. Myself and the kids have booked a trip. The 4 of us only.. W staying home with the dog...
Its time to think of me and make me happy.. You are right Rob, I thought maybe her coming along may just jig a memory and maybe spark something. Wishfull thinking I guess. Next is to work out and build the pipes and get the 6 pack I always wanted.. Ok ok, its a 1 pack right now.. gotta get to 2 first... lol.
When we told the children about the trip( who by the way no nothing of our sitch) they where happy and when they asked why mom isnt coming she said she coudln take time of work. I have told her that I woul dlike the kids to finish school and take the trip before we sit them down and (W)she tells the kids what she has done and that she is the one who wants out. That will be a very tough day, especially for my little girl who is 10.. I am sad just writing this.. I know y that time I will be much stronger to handle this. Thank you for the support Rob, Sandi and MF.. Your thought are fantastic. I massage them for me, and apply them in my way. Probably not right, but trying to stay positive with this whole thing..
Going on this trip without her is definatly doing a 180.. I dont think she thought I would actually do it. She was a bit taken back. I could tell when she told the kids.. Does this sound counter intuitive? I think so, and really hope so..
M 43 W 43 S15 S 12 D 10 ILYBNILWY ( Dec 2009) Sleeping separate rooms April 8 2010. Sep as of 07/14/2010 W moving out 07/31/2010 No OM confirmed ( yet)
robx.. You say it like it is.. Its also about growing the pair of " nuts" that are needed. It goes against my grain.. Its not who I am, but I realize what your saying.. I need to be counter-intuitive if I am going to have a chance at this.
It goes against your grain?! Its not who you are? Bull$hit. It is who you are but you've been trained and fed crap all your life that tells you being overly nice and dishonest about things when it comes to your wife is what will get you where you need to be and obviously that hasn't worked and I'll make a blanket statement (and yes it's a generalization) that it hasn't worked for alot of men on this forum - don't believe me, spend some time reading all the LBH's with WAW's and how they act, all nicey nicey, a$$ kissing, etc.
Listen.... Women are women (for the most part) Men are men (for the most part) Women like Men and Men like Women (for the most part)
When Men act more like Women than being more like Men, it screws up attraction and alot of relationships.
You're super nice (it sounds like it), you don't complain much, you do alot for your wife & family, go overboard I might say, supplicate her, buy her gifts, tolerate her crap treatment of you and you've done it for years. I would venture a guess that when you both started seeing each other, you were more masculine and she was more feminine but as the years progressed, those raisins you call balls (I'm being funny, relax) shrunk a bit, you became more feminine, more of a caregiver, homemaker, less aggressive, less assertive, put up with crap and don't rock the boat as much while your wife... she became more assertive, aggressive, more masculine, less feminine, less affectionate, less caring, less loving, etc.
Fast forward to today and your situation.
Tell me I'm wrong.
I wanted to offer another view. If the advice above help you and makes sense to you, then by all means, take it. But from my point of view, the idea that you need to act more like a "man" could very well send your wife much quicker towards a divorce and no reconcilliation at all. I think it's important for something as important as a marriage to look at your options from as many different sides as you can. In my case, it really helped me to hear from friends who thought I'd be better off divorcing (which is what is happening) but I also listened carefully and deeply considered the advice of friends who said we should work it out. In the end, the decision was made based on me being true to myself: I could not be married to someone who cheated on me.
But here's a way of thinking about it that might help. There's the advice that you need to "grow a pair" or act more like a man, or whatever horse hockey advice is being given.
Listen, it has nothing to do with your being a tough man and she needs to see more determination from you. If anything, if you are a soft-spoken, giving person, don't let the fear of her leaving you force you to change who you are, unless that change is something that you personally believe will make yourself better. Otherwise, you can fake being cold or indifferent for only so long. It might be long enough for her to return to you, but sooner or later, unless those changes are truly permanent, you'll go back to who are.
And it's because of who you are that she left you.
I *know* that hurts to hear, but it's important to make that distinction. If you fake who you are in the hopes that it will win her back, when and if she comes back, it will be under false pretenses and she'll leave you again. If you stay true to who you are and she doesn't like that, then you are better off not being married to her. Wouldn't you prefer someone who would appreciate the core of who you are - kind and nice - than the illusion and deceit of thinking, oh hell, what am I supposed to do here?
Another point I wanted to make is please, please, please don't get trapped into the caveman, lizard brain thinking of man-hunter, woman-gatherer bs. If your wife agrees with those terms, then it's useful. As a woman and having many many friends who are women, that type of thinking is exactly what pushes women away from men. Far away.
Plus, if that sort of thinking were useful, you wouldn't have so many women posting here who are SATM and having their husbands cheating on them. But here's another way of thinking about it so you can change your actions without getting into gender stereotypes.
I've seen this happen with so many people, that it's something I find hard to believe people don't talk about more. It sounds like at some point, you became passive - not because you didn't have "nuts" - but because you started to abandon your adult responsibilities. If you wife asked where would you like to go to dinner and you told her, where ever you want, that would be great...exactly 50% of the time. But if in most of the times she asked what you wanted to do and you said "you pick, wifey" then she's got all the decision making responsibility.
Or if you asked how should we spend our money or discipline our kids or what movie do you want to watch. A lot of times, I see one spouse letting the other spouse make all the decisions bc they "want to be nice." Being nice is just code for no decision-making. After a while, the "nice" intentions become a burden. Why can't you decide where to go for dinner.
But let me clear. If has nothing to do as a man or woman.
It does, however, make it seem more a parent-child or teacher-child relationship. You forget to pick up the groceries or do something that causes a rift and she gets p.o.'d, then she has to "punish" you, like a parent would do to a child. For example, probably for the past 3 years, our oldest daughter loves all things Disney. On more than several occasions, I would ask my stbx-H to get the latest dvd or stop at the mall to get costume-dressy stuff, or things for her. And lots of times he forgot. In fact, the only way he seemed to understand how important it was when we had an argument about it. In a sense, I had to "discipline" him.
The reason I bring it up is the common thread in all the people I know who are divorcing or trying to save their marriage was that one person had assumed the adult role and the other seemed more like a child. This is not gender-specific, as in my cousin, who's a guy, did the same thing for his wife, like giving her an allowance and trying to fix financial messes she got herself into. She cheated on him. It makes perfect sense that you can't have that difference in power, esp. since a marriage is about two, adult people helping each other. If they aren't it's like wanting to date your teacher. Not hot for teacher hot...just NOT hot at all (think of the teacher looking like Ben Stein from Ferris Bueller's day off...your wife probably thinks you look more like him than the romantic partner she wanted).
Does this make sense to you. Again, there's a lot of good advice here - particularly the part of doing things to make yourself happy and satisfied, whether or not your wife approves of it or not.
