Her baptism is a big deal to me as far as becoming a full fledged Christian; I am happy about it, but really feel ambivalent given that she is doing it while committing what Christians would consider a horrible sin.
I told her I'd like to attend and she said she would like that, but wasn't sure if I'd be comfortable given "the other people who will be there", namely, the OM.
Her baptism, like your wedding vows, means more to you than to her.
Her ongoing affair reduces this to (begging Monty Python's pardon) "a farcical aquatic ceremony".
After a brief dunking, your wife will be wetter and more outwardly sanctimonious in her delusions.
Go Dark. Work on Pigskin. Leave the moistened bint to discover the error of her own ways or not.
This IS a tough spot to be in, but I think you are correct in that you need to quit trying to counsel her spiritually. That is what her pastor is for.
If I were in your shoes, I would --in confidence--call the pastor (you've spoken with him before, right?) and let him know you are thrilled that she has decided to be baptized, but you are concerned that she also seems to believe that this gives her license to sin, and because of God's grace, it will all be OK. Perhaps some additional pre-baptismal counselling by the pastor would be a good idea.
Let the pastor know that you and the children plan to be there to support her. Arrive early and sit in front. I think it would be a mistake to miss her baptism. Just my thoughts...
--Silverado
It is a tough spot. A very awkward one which creates huge conflicts within me.
I have considered calling the pastor, but haven't because then I would be meddling in something that my W must deal with on her own conscience. I imagine how I might feel if my pastor pulled me aside and said "I understand you have gone to communion without going to confession for this, this, this, and this." I would probably feel that my W was intentionally trying to spite me. If somehow my intervention caused them to refuse to baptize my W, I could see how she would hold it against me when really it is none of my business.
They do have a preparation class at my W's church that baptism candidates must attend. I hope that they cover topics like this, especially regarding repenting from sins, but who knows. My W would probably feel that the baptism will wipe away the sin and she can start over. Though we won't be divorced by then, so her first act as a Christian will be to continue in committing one of the biggest sins of all.
Maybe the OM would feel intimidated by my presence and beg out of it. I am hoping my in-laws come to put more heat on him. I can see my mother in law giving him the evil eye. They are not Christian and don't practice any faith, so they see this whole change in their daughter very cynically.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
Then I would go to the pastor as a man of God and explain to him that you are struggling with something and see if he'd be willing to listen. It's the truth after all.
If your W is seeking Godly intervention or whatever, you can't control it, true. But to satisfy your own spirit, I don't see why you can't ask him the same theological questions you ask here.
Make the emphasis on you and not on your W.
I think her thinking needs to be exposed to the light. Just IMHO.
I can't say this for myself because the guy who tried to get me fired with the OM was a pastor. So I'm more than a little distrustful of them right now.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Her baptism is a big deal to me as far as becoming a full fledged Christian; I am happy about it, but really feel ambivalent given that she is doing it while committing what Christians would consider a horrible sin.
I told her I'd like to attend and she said she would like that, but wasn't sure if I'd be comfortable given "the other people who will be there", namely, the OM.
Her baptism, like your wedding vows, means more to you than to her.
Her ongoing affair reduces this to (begging Monty Python's pardon) "a farcical aquatic ceremony".
After a brief dunking, your wife will be wetter and more outwardly sanctimonious in her delusions.
Go Dark. Work on Pigskin. Leave the moistened bint to discover the error of her own ways or not.
That's what bugs me about it Spinfree. It is total hypocrisy. When she came home saying she finally committed to get baptized, I thought "Whoa! Did somebody FINALLY get to you? Can't wait to see what you suggest for reconciling our marriage!"
It is a complete sacrilege, although her church is a generic non-denominational Christian church, mainly composed of ex-Catholics, so they may have their own views on this. Most people I've met from the church are pretty serious Christians but my W seems to dwell heavily on "God forgives you, move on and start over" messages rather than as Puppy mentioned "You are forgiven, repent and sin no more."
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
Then I would go to the pastor as a man of God and explain to him that you are struggling with something and see if he'd be willing to listen. It's the truth after all.
If your W is seeking Godly intervention or whatever, you can't control it, true. But to satisfy your own spirit, I don't see why you can't ask him the same theological questions you ask here.
Make the emphasis on you and not on your W.
I think her thinking needs to be exposed to the light. Just IMHO.
I can't say this for myself because the guy who tried to get me fired with the OM was a pastor. So I'm more than a little distrustful of them right now.
But honestly Bond, I'm not struggling with the implications of it. I KNOW it is ridiculous, hypocritical, and just plain wrong.
I think back to what robx said about trying to get my wife to eat a plate of food that absolutely disgusted her and asking her to ask God for help.
Me going to the pastor would be trying to get someone to tell my W to reconcile. That wouldn't work. She'd probably quit going to the church. She'll only come back to me if she WANTS to come back. And honestly, that's the only reason I would want her to have.
She said she is going to visit the pastor to discuss our situation with him, as I told her it might be a good idea before we put a stake in the heart of our R. I'm sure she'll hear everything she doesn't want to hear, and ignore it.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
second, do what robx said (although I don't know how that applies to the baptism thing, and that's a tough call b/c of the kids.) **Robx-write this date down--b/c I just told someone to do what you said to do...
Third, Do the forgiveness work FOR YOU, not her. She doesn't have to know about it. It's so you are free from the anger that will consume your life otherwise.
We all know, we have all been there; a place where our pain is so great that it impacts all aspects of our life and interferes with our parenting so that we aren't fully present for our children, and our finances fall thru the cracks and we gain or lose weight in an unhealthy way and yada yada yada....forgiving is a gift for you and I never understood that really, until this whole DB thing came up.
I recall thinking my h didn't "deserve" forgiveness, so why do it? But that's b/c I didn't get it. NOW I GET IT and it has very little to do with THEM...it's about US and living our lives with the freedom from their actions hurting us or their crazy choices ruining OUR lives...make sense? I found praying for God to take the pain and anger from me, a helpful prayer I said 100 times a day, literally. Usually in the shower out loud. Or right before h would call home...to calm me down and not wail on him verbally. So sorry you are here. And down the road we'll probably pity your wife when she wakes up from the fog and sees what my h finally saw, except for him it was not completely too late. At one point he said he felt "like a well dressed man standing next to a wrecked car, and all the passengers inside the car were hurt and on life support and he wasn't sure they'd make it" (meaning the R's he had with me and the kids) and he was crying when he said this. He "got it"...and I felt for him. If I had caused that kind of pain to him or our children, it'd be hard to live with myself. It's his cross to bear and I do my best to remind him of how lucky we ALL are..but he still has repair work with our d20 to do. Not my responsibility.
IF your w ever wakes up to the same type of thing, God help her. RE: the baptism...she's an amazing rationalizer. I would urge you to stop making her defend her choices b/c she can and will and instead, you should let that other voice in her (God's??) talk to her. You do make her choose too much when she's SO Not ready and you do pursue when you need to SO back off
As for dating OW, at least fake it!! (NO involving the kids of course) but why not be a little mysterious? I do NOT think you'd be letting her off the hook with the poss exception of a temporary thing. B/C the long run, any woman who's h is dating OW, will think about what SHE is missing. It's human nature. She will wonder how the OW can find you so attractive when she doesn't, AND she'll start to notice the flaws in OM - which MUST be fairly apparent given that he's so wacky at work. Plus, you NOT dating OW or anyone does NOT make you more attractive to her. It just doesn't. So no matter how you think she'll look at you dating OW and how you fear she'll use it as an excuse to do more with OM, the "staying loyal" to her has NOT worked. Since you won't be damaging your kids thru exposing them to OW any time soon, what's the harm as long as you are honest? Plan B is to fake dating OW...why not? Nothing else has worked these days. She IS one confused puppy and the religion thing is making me screw my head in the ceiling...
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
second, do what robx said (although I don't know how that applies to the baptism thing, and that's a tough call b/c of the kids.) **Robx-write this date down--b/c I just told someone to do what you said to do...
25 have I told you lately that you're beautiful? Don't let anyone tell you differently ;-)
Third, Do the forgiveness work FOR YOU, not her. She doesn't have to know about it. It's so you are free from the anger that will consume your life otherwise.
We all know, we have all been there; a place where our pain is so great that it impacts all aspects of our life and interferes with our parenting so that we aren't fully present for our children, and our finances fall thru the cracks and we gain or lose weight in an unhealthy way and yada yada yada....forgiving is a gift for you and I never understood that really, until this whole DB thing came up.
I recall thinking my h didn't "deserve" forgiveness, so why do it? But that's b/c I didn't get it. NOW I GET IT and it has very little to do with THEM...it's about US and living our lives with the freedom from their actions hurting us or their crazy choices ruining OUR lives...make sense?
Yes, Yes, YES and YES!!!!!
People you really need to get this point rammed into your skulls and understand the power that it gives you.
Forgiveness is the gift you give yourself, forgive them, let go of the anger and resentment you've had inside of your for weeks, months... gulp.... YEARS and release yourself from that prison that has such a grip on a lot (I actually spelled this as "alot" to begin with but a certain grammar & spelling expert in another thread recently taught me different) of you.
Life will be alot easier once you accomplish this and you'll be kicking yourself later about how much time you wasted before you finally figured this out.
second, do what robx said (although I don't know how that applies to the baptism thing, and that's a tough call b/c of the kids.) **Robx-write this date down--b/c I just told someone to do what you said to do...
Third, Do the forgiveness work FOR YOU, not her. She doesn't have to know about it. It's so you are free from the anger that will consume your life otherwise.
We all know, we have all been there; a place where our pain is so great that it impacts all aspects of our life and interferes with our parenting so that we aren't fully present for our children, and our finances fall thru the cracks and we gain or lose weight in an unhealthy way and yada yada yada....forgiving is a gift for you and I never understood that really, until this whole DB thing came up.
I recall thinking my h didn't "deserve" forgiveness, so why do it? But that's b/c I didn't get it. NOW I GET IT and it has very little to do with THEM...it's about US and living our lives with the freedom from their actions hurting us or their crazy choices ruining OUR lives...make sense? I found praying for God to take the pain and anger from me, a helpful prayer I said 100 times a day, literally. Usually in the shower out loud. Or right before h would call home...to calm me down and not wail on him verbally. So sorry you are here. And down the road we'll probably pity your wife when she wakes up from the fog and sees what my h finally saw, except for him it was not completely too late. At one point he said he felt "like a well dressed man standing next to a wrecked car, and all the passengers inside the car were hurt and on life support and he wasn't sure they'd make it" (meaning the R's he had with me and the kids) and he was crying when he said this. He "got it"...and I felt for him. If I had caused that kind of pain to him or our children, it'd be hard to live with myself. It's his cross to bear and I do my best to remind him of how lucky we ALL are..but he still has repair work with our d20 to do. Not my responsibility.
IF your w ever wakes up to the same type of thing, God help her. RE: the baptism...she's an amazing rationalizer. I would urge you to stop making her defend her choices b/c she can and will and instead, you should let that other voice in her (God's??) talk to her. You do make her choose too much when she's SO Not ready and you do pursue when you need to SO back off
As for dating OW, at least fake it!! (NO involving the kids of course) but why not be a little mysterious? I do NOT think you'd be letting her off the hook with the poss exception of a temporary thing. B/C the long run, any woman who's h is dating OW, will think about what SHE is missing. It's human nature. She will wonder how the OW can find you so attractive when she doesn't, AND she'll start to notice the flaws in OM - which MUST be fairly apparent given that he's so wacky at work. Plus, you NOT dating OW or anyone does NOT make you more attractive to her. It just doesn't. So no matter how you think she'll look at you dating OW and how you fear she'll use it as an excuse to do more with OM, the "staying loyal" to her has NOT worked. Since you won't be damaging your kids thru exposing them to OW any time soon, what's the harm as long as you are honest? Plan B is to fake dating OW...why not? Nothing else has worked these days. She IS one confused puppy and the religion thing is making me screw my head in the ceiling...
j-
Thanks for the comments 25. I decided to forgive her a couple of days ago after seeing the "Remember to Forgive" note the day after praying for resentment and bitterness to be taken from me.
She is messed up. When/If she does come to her senses, it will be a nightmare for her.
I worry about her depression since I've asked her if she ever considered hurting herself. She admitted she had, but "I would never do that because it is stupid and would cause 1000 times the amount of pain I am suffering now to the people I left behind."
I feel 100% better than a couple of days ago. I am back on the detachment horse and am going to stay there. What set me back was the agreement for us to have a date and that was suggested by me. When she scuttled that by reconfirming she had no intention of coming back it was a blow. There will be no more of that for me. Any future reconciliation attempt will have to be initiated by her, and when/if that day comes, I will make her work for it, as I'm not falling for BS again.
I think God has given me the message to stay out of His business since I am screwing it up.
I would love to date. I could have ample opportunities. I've never slacked on working out and am very athletic looking. My issue is how that is viewed by God. I would never sleep with anyone while still married, but I'm not sure if even going out with other women is acceptable. Perhaps that is a question for my pastor. I could see myself being vulnerable to becoming attached to someone, and I don't know if I want to pop the top on that worm can.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
I will take a limited biblical approach with some things you have mentioned. A couple verses come to mind from the Gospel, why do you seek to remove the spec from your brothers eye when you have a plank in your own. We should rule our emotions not allow the emotions to rule us. Peace and prosperity, do not judge others for you will be judged. Forgive one another so the Father can forgive you! Paraphrases of course.
Now as you being a man of faith you understand God's word is the law. The bible is the inspired word of God and the commandments are the law. Apart from being blasphemous of the Holy Spirit all sins are forgiven given true repentance. God's grace is not a license to sin, so given your wife's apparent interpretation of Christianity we can see the flaws in her thinking, based on the word.
I saw a poster mention the screwtape letters by CS Lewis I would whole heartadly agree it is worth a read and may help you with forgiveness. If you believe the word then you know how she is being manipulated and tempted, not that she still isn't responsible, but that she is also being lied to. Given the meds and history of depression I would say she is also even more supseptable to such temptations. You have stated you have given this to God and you are looking for his answer. His answer will come in his time not ours, this can be very frustrating and cause doubt in our mind. Do not let it, praise the Lord for he is preparing you for something else, he is building up your patience and perserverance. Even the most evil things he will work for good.
"He" did not intend for this to happen to you I am sure he suffers just as all of us suffer in our own trials. Why he allows it, I don't know. But take this trial for what it is and know he will comfort you and answer your prayers. By the book, it warns us against being equally yoked with a non believer, it also states if a non-believer leaves a believer you have every right to take another wife. Also adultrey is a terrible sin in the Lords eyes and the he "hates" divorce because it breaks up and seperates the family.
I believe I can say, he would want you to use patience, perservance, and employ forgiveness if she were to repent and denounce her sin against God and you and the family! Just don't let the bitterness eat you up, this is the wicked ones playground. Also you are right God would not want you dating other women while you are still married because we do not know how he will answer or when he will answer your prayers. Plus two wrongs do not make a right no matter how good they feel at the time.
I feel for you brother as all on this board do, things are easier said than done, but know you are not alone in your trials and we are loved no matter how difficult it is to believe it when things like this happen in our lives.
Peace and Prosperity to you and your family!
Take rest in if she does not come back it is because the Good Lord knows she will not be able to stay true and would not want to put you through this again. But if she repents and comes back take it before him again and he will lead you to where you should go for the answer.
Married:10 years D final 8/28/08 10 minutes is all it took Life goes on and DB was no small part in growing from the Divorce!
