Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers flowmom | need to commit to myself

Wish I could have checked in sooner--

I hope your Bday was great!

And yes--your H's "facial expressions"--just view them like a zoologist studying some bizarre primate. It's him, not you.

Hope you had a great day!

HB, thanks so much for your thoughts and support...it means a lot to me. You (and everyone else) are welcome in my thread any time.

HB - you say that my H didn't open his mouth. I think he did in his own way but he didn't spell it out and maybe I just couldn't hear it because I didn't know what I could do. In MC he did talk about his unhappiness in our M (Dec08-May09). The problem was that we weren't able to address the hopelessness of our sitch because we weren't given any strategies to deal with our daily problems. Our MC said that we had to make huge lifestyle changes (which wasn't feasible because our communication just wasn't there) and H had to shift a lot...which he wasn't ready for. The MC really let me off the hook and didn't help me to see that I could make changes and 180s. I was trying hard in the M, but I wasn't trying smart and she didn't help me to target my efforts more effectively.

H did complain and express his dissatisfaction a lot so I had ample evidence of his unhappiness too. But I guess I thought we had more time to work on things. And when we were still in MC I thought we both had the willingness to do the work. I made some wrong assumptions along the way I guess.

The thought that I could have turned things around if I could turn back the clock to six months ago...that is very hard to bear (and not necessarily true).

I can see where the Marriage Counselor failed to do her job, she had a lack of understanding, and an inability to see that your husband was in MLC/deep depression.
You're right, she could have helped you, but didn't.

I'm not making excuses for her, but some of these people are inadequately trained, and to be able to spot an MLC case is pretty far down the list; believe it or not most people STILL don't believe in MLC.

He could have also said that he was experiencing some trouble within himself and needed help from you, FM. Had he been a little more clear about what HIS problem was, and you'd had the knowledge you're gaining now...yet, I cannot say that he STILL wouldn't have left.
No one knows what could have happened, not even me.

YOU didn't have anything to do with his decision to move out, FM, HE DID.
When someone has a problem, it is up to them to ask for help, not run..and he ran away, instead of just sitting down and attempting to get you to understand what was happening with him.
The person who has a problem is the one responsible for whatever decisions he/she makes to "fix" that problem...running is not a "fix"..but he didn't give you a chance, none at all.

There have been a few men who have taken this type of a problem to their wife, but a lack of understanding(and the MLC'er's lack of articulation) can complicate it to the nth degree.
And because MLC is what it is, who's to say that you wouldn't still have come to the place you are now, EVEN if you'd known and tried to understand, tried to change?
You had NO help at that point, FM in understanding or otherwise, so you were doing the best you could with what you had.

When you have a spouse in MLC, it does NOT matter if you turn backflips to fix what they say is a problem, it is NEVER enough.
I've been there, bent over backward, and it DIDN'T do anything to fix the problem..the problem was within HIM, not me.
And I was awhile seeing that; instead, I was blaming myself for a problem that was HIS, not mine.

So, while you might have not "heard" him..think about this; it might NOT have made a difference even if you had, their articulation is next to nothing; and when you don't "understand" they get really bad in the abusive way they talk.
You cannot read minds, nor can you just pick it out of thin air.

That's why I say you cannot blame yourself, nor beat yourself up.

You're human, not divine, and lack the abililty to instantly understand what's going on in your husband's head.

ALL of us are in that boat on both sides of this equation.

As it stands now, I cannot tell you what my husband is thinking; if he wants something, he must ask for it, or it will NOT be given to him.

And, last, but not least, it's NOT true that you could have done something different in that last six months, FM, please don't beat yourself to pieces over it. Hind sight is 20/20, but remember MLC is SO unpredictable, and you didn't know what you were dealing with, then.

That was then, this is now, so when you can, you move forward with the knowledge you gain.

I had to do that, and it took me awhile to understand that I could have done NOTHING to stop this, or prevent it or anything.

It happens and you learn to deal with the fallout, understanding that whatever happens from this point on is up to you.

That's hard to do when you're grieving the demise of your marriage, and trying hard to see that it's NOT your fault this happened.

You figure, you're married, so it's GOT to be something you did..but honey, you didn't do anything to cause this; it's HIM, not you.

Do not take the bizarre and rude and eye averted look on his face personally. And look at his face less until it changes. Yes, you are seeing the literal manifestation of shame-faced.

yes also because why should he get your eye contact when he won't return it ? I know that sounds like tit for tat but I couldn't make eye contact with WH for 6 months! It was satisfying.

HB, your words are very helpful for me because you are getting at the heart of a lot of the "sticky" feelings that I'm having about how the separation came to be. I am going to have to re-read your post a few times to let it sink in.


That does ring true. I did make a lot of changes to address H's issues with me, and he acknowledged them in MC. The MC said that I was making changes and making myself vulnerable and that H wasn't. There was a feeling that nothing I could do was enough. H made it very clear in MC that there were things that he could not accept about me (the lack of earning/procrastination came up quite a bit, because of the financial pit trigger that got us into MC in the first place).

I guess I didn't think about not making eye contact. I saw that as part of the friendly, cheerful, pleasant routine. It's the only thing that H has expressed appreciation for (other than some things I've done to deal with S6's issues). But I'll consider keeping up the friendly/cheerful routine but withdrawing the eye contact. I try to make it relaxed, but it may feel confrontational to H.

Based on your signature you and your H were married for 3 years prior to having children. Did you work and bring in a stable income during the first three years?

You had mentioned in a previous post your H coaxed you to start a family and you happily obliged. Did the two of you ever have a specific discussion about you not working once your son arrived and how the family would be supported in a financial sense?

I am simply asking because it seems you and your H were on very different pages right off the bat regarding childcare and income based on the info you provided.

If the income issue is truly one of his real sources of unhappiness it seems odd he would rather shell out TWO incomes (one for his own life and apartment and one for you and the children). If he was struggling before it is odd to me that he doesn't seem to be struggling as much now despite the fact he has double the bills (two apartments).

For the 8 years that we lived together before having children, H and I mostly maintained separate finances and paid our own way. We did get into a financial crisis after buying our first home however...there was a huge unexpected bill for cost overruns ($10,000) and it was during a time when I was unexpectedly high and dry with my consulting contracts. H freaked out and was furious that I didn't do more to earn money during that time (he felt I should work at McD if I couldn't scrounge up a contract) whereas I saw it as a financial setback rather than emergency (we got a personal loan to pay the cost overruns). That's when he started his side business and that was something that he never forgave me for, even though about 3 months after we got the huge bill I went on a 3 month contract to the US and worked almost every single day and ended up overall earning a typical amount of money that year (which was less than H earned because by that point he had a steady income from a job). That crisis was seen as a huge core betrayal in our M and it came up in MC in a way that was not at all obvious how to deal with. That's when I felt very hopeless in MC...H was nursing grudges from every bad thing that ever happened over the last 16 years.

When we had children, we had a general understanding that I would work part-time and we would share the childcare. But when our baby came along with his special needs and we learned more about parenting, our perspective changed about the role that I needed to play as S's mother. We strongly resonated with attachment parenting and that wasn't compatible with the model that we had both envisioned before children came along. H seemed to be on board with attachment parenting, but we never really had the conversations about what the implications of our choices would be. And frankly this all happened in a haze of extreme sleep deprivation and being frazzled at how difficult it was to care for our baby.

I did work part-time and even did crazy things like do field work and have H tag along with S so that he could breastfeed regularly, etc. I tried to do both but as time went on and once I became pregnant with my second baby and then had to care for two children, it became less and less feasible to do serious amounts of work. The last two years I did very little paid work...the lowest ever since S was born.

Right now I am earning enough to pay for the rent on H's apartment, but not all the furniture that he has bought, and whatever new sports he wants to start or courtship expenses that he might have.

The finances were a trigger but not the whole issue. I think there was a physical attraction issue that H has only referred to indirectly (due to my being slightly overweight, unfit and being involved in a lot of breastfeeding and mothering stuff). And of course a lot of communication stuff that I understand so much more since reading How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It.

If giving him eye contact makes him feel good, I'd continue to do it. HOwever, you are right, you need to find a way to not let his lack of eye contact spin a story in your head that it's about you. Perhaps literally write down your new attitude - that it has to do with what he is going through - and put it in your pocket. read it befor eyou see him, while he's there (but don't let him see you do it) and after he leaves. It may help in "training" yourself to respond differently. Trust yourself on this - it is about what he is going through.

Does he have any understanding or empathy for why you stay home? Does he understand your issues with your homeschooling and your procrastination? Ideally, you could have empathy for his desire for you to be "working mom" and he could have empathy for your desire to be "homeschool mom" and nobody would expect the other to change. Just to listen.

In my mind, if you really tried in MC for him to hear you and if you gave him the listen and validate stance and it is STILL an issue, then you can do no more. If you never got to that place, there's work to be done!

And you can only start with yourself. Instead of blaming yourself and feeling you have to fix yourself to please him, try just listening and validating "I could see how you might feel that way." It does help. He may follow suit.

((FM))