Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE How to shake up spouse without having an affair?

But what about the fact that BOTH of you made a promise (to have and to hold, to honour with your bodies, etc) which one of you has chosen not to fulfil? Does that still make the promise binding?

Sometimes what you describe seems to come very close to having a victim complex: wilfully suffering in the name of love or duty because it feeds a psychological need.

I agree that we are who we say ourselves to be. Yet, there must always be the possibility for self-growth, for transformation, for re-defining ourselves. But I appreciate that you're looking for an honourable way to escape from the trap in which you've caged yourself.

Cyrena:

There is a certain duality to my thinking...on the one hand, I was very clear what I was looking for and what I was looking to build in a new relationship. In thst sense, I can say I was "lied to" or simply ignored. OTOH, there is the complication associated with the whole menopause/hysterectomy scene, and on that score, I know that I am not alone. There was no way to know that what was on the horizon.

How that has played out over the years (both sexually and behaviorally) was also something that I did not expect. But then again, I did not expect my very robust sex life with my first wife, right up to two days before our son was born, would suddenly come to an end. For as prescient as I sometimesam or appear, I do have my share of life's surprises.

You aren't the first one to notice that I am far more willing to "suffer through" some situation. I just don't play the "victim" all that well. But when others give up, I'm still trudging on. This capacity shows up in a number of areas, not just here. And in other circumstances, that capacity looks completely different (not related to being a victim or a martyr) endurance and being "unstoppable."

It has occurred to me that there may be no honorable way out.

Captain ... sometimes when I read you, I picture you as a caricature … in my imagination you’re a Knight or Lord from an age of chivalry and honour. A man committed so strongly to his "word" and his "honour" that he lives a dignified and proud life … to the extent that he doesn't have to accept personal responsibility for the decisions he takes - because he was doing his "duty".

You remind me of the characters of legend who sacrificed their son in honour of their King. Honourable and nobel, self sacrificing and perhaps contributing to the greater good … but tragic in it’s passion.

Duty and honour and commitment to our word are all important and valuable personal attributes ... but at what cost? and when does our duty become an excuse to accepting something less than a fulfilling and authentic life for ourselves?

Sorry for the hi-jack SSMGuy.


V

and the thing I forgot to say ... I wonder if that's how your wife sees you? So embued in duty that she doesn't have to try ... you'll stick with it no matter what ....

Women need a bit of a challenge to bring their best game. For me, certainly, that challenge, that desire to "engage" my partner so he's there out of something more than duty is the greatest aphrodesiac.

Virginia:

We had Valentine's Day last weekend...went to the beach and watched it snow about 6 inches. I would not call it a "celebration." Although, the card she gave me with her hand written note conveyed a sense of how much she has appreciated all that I've done for her in the last six weeks as she recovers, there was nothing close and exciting about any of it.

That is what I miss and wonder if it was really ever there at all (and if what was there little more than an act). I realized, as I stood in the shower a couple of mornings ago, that there is nothing about this mattiage that excites me any longer, that has me be in a way that I can't wait to be home and be with my wife (or be with her anywhere). It's nothing like not wanting to go home or not being able to stand going home and being with her. It is like going to the bathroom, it is just something I do.

And that is the problem, isn't it? The question asked as the title of this thread. Clearly, I don't have an answer. While she might have some self-assurance that I will stick to my word and "duty" associated with not only what I've said in the past (including marriage vows), it iither does not occur for her (or she does not "care" because it is not a serious enough threat) just how terribly unhappy I am about he lack of intimacy.

I have never been one that has engaged in sex simply for the thrill of the physical orgasm. In the periods of my life where I have had no attachments/committed relationships, I have never had an offer of sex simply for the sake of sexual gratification...no strings attached. Moreover, I have never pursued that, either. When sexual intimacy was offered, there were either strings attached (usually some level of commitment beyond the immediate moment that I would not choose to have) or I was involved with someone else at a level of commitment that I thought would be damaged, that represented a betrayal of my word.

It has never been about sex for sex sake with me. Not that I was looking for the next great love of my life, but that I had to feel at least something for the woman other than simply using her as a sperm recepticle.

What I have said and pursued throughout my life is sexual intimacy that both generates closeness and is generated by emotionsl closeness. It is symbiotic. It is a duality. I am aware of the general characterization that men need sex in order to fell close to their partner and that for women it can be the other way around. As a self-aware, self-generating person (or as my wife puts it, a very advanced soul) knowing or acting upon this provides some capacity to "put up" with things that others would not.

I hold to the view that sexual intimacy is something I wish to have that is a natural expression of the closeness of the relationship, not an obligation or "responsibility" that must done to satisfy some checklist of appearances. My wife knows and has always known this about me. So, in one sense, I have given her permission to drop the pretense of being sexually interested in me when she really is not. Clearly she is not and has not been interested in me sexually,for a very long time. And mostly, I'd say she's not intereeted in me beyond the point wher my absence or failure to pay for the house and the utilities would inconvenience her.

But the cost has been 4703 days without any sexual intimacy in a relationship where maintaining a high level of intimacy, sexual and otherwise, was a clearly stated goal and marker in the relationship and the marriage. If I wanted a non-sexual relationship I could have and would have done something else after my first marriage. This is not the life I would have chosen. It is, however, the life I have (or maybe more accurately it has me).

(As an interesting aside and maybe not coincidentally, it was also about this same time,nearly 13 years ago, my ex-wife had apologized to me and told a group of people that I was working with how proud she was of the father I had become AND that I had become the man she first fell in love with and saw so many years before. I have wondered, from time to time, if there was something more to it than just the apology and the "completion" of all that...though I have always held that I would never do to my current wife, what my ex-wife did to me; I would never do my ex-wife's husband what he did to me.)

And while we are on the subject of my ex-wife, snow days bring up just how much of a contrast exists between my first marriage (prior to childbirth) and this one. My ex-wife and I loved snowy days. We would spend entire days curled up with each other, reading, talking, listening to music and making love, maybe 3,4, or 5 times in a day, literally hours making love with and to each other. Sometimes, we'd get dressed after the storm and in the fresh fallen snow, tromp through the woods, cameras and hot thermos' in tow.

Sometimes we could not wait to get back home to curl up in bed together to warm each other with a cup of hot chocolate, marshmallows, and whipped cream (ah, the things you can do with whipped cream. I remember that, too). And by not waiting, I mean sometimes the two of us stripping naked in the woods, using our coats and clothes as ground cover and making love in the freshly fallen snow. The crispness of the cold air, thr bright clear sunshine...there was nothing quite like the heat generated by making love in the snow. The combination of the cold air, the snow melting on my back and watching the steam waft off out bodies spotlighted by the brilliant sunshine against the deep blue sky.

Whether she was on top of or underneath me, it brought a whole new definition to "snow angel."

Nothing like that has happened in this marriage. Snow days are not special at all. In the distant past when we did have a sex-life, it would have been "too cold." Now, the cold would have other adverse effects. So, making love outdoors in the snow has pretty much been out of the question since day one. As for indoor activites, even when the kids were not around, it never had that level of intimacy.

So, as I see it, I made this choice years ago and the life I have is the consequence/responsibility of that choice. It's not that I can't go on to a different life. I can. It's just that the cost of doing that still seems greater (with no sure payoff) than the cost of staying where I am, at 56, and the way this relationship is.

What challenge could I put forward that I haven't tried already?

BTW, today is the first anniversary of my mom's death and I'm feeling reflective while missing her. She would be proud that I hadn't cheated on my wife under the circumstances, but she would not be "happy" for the profound lack of intimacy that I ended up with in my marriage.

Ouch.

There's something to think about.

Ouch?

The question is does that have a ring of truth for you? Sounds like it might.

Think "Journey of the Sorceror" by the Eagles.

I just returned from teaching a course all week and the 400 mile drive has me pretty tired. But I've been meaning to add that to the reply.

Wow, I really want to agree with haphazard. I just can't go that far. I am hoping against hope that ssmguy is right to try to hold on. I am only 13 years into my ssmarraige and I still get a begrudging rogering about once every month or two. She just can't seem to make peace with the fact that if she just doesn't want to there is no good that will come of trying for my sake, if nothing else.

The 'wimp' comments about how ssmguy (me also) have allowed wife to get away with it resinate very powerfully with me. It is the reaction I got when I first came on board and rightfully so. When a woman that you otherwise love and respect denies you sex because she's not turned on by you any longer that is one slap in the face. When she also doesn't care enough to listen to you tell her how important it is for you to feel connected with her and makes no effort to try to explore or discuss any reasons for this, that will reduce any man to a wimp in his own mind if nowhere else, pretty fast.

I am actually worried my wife is actually the one with the affair going on despite her evidence and suggestions that she is just not a sexual person. The lack of effort makes far more sense under these conditions. Saying that I want out and meaning it might be just what she is waiting for......this is why a certain amout of 'wait and see if it fizzles' or 'trying to get her to rediscover your connection' is a reasonable way for many of us to try to play this.....I have had very little success so only take it for what it is worth.

Sorry, I'm rusty.... my reply refers the date rape caveman solution at the end of page one of this stream here......now I'll continue to see if what else was said...