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Originally Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails
Originally Posted By: Allen A
Hi Nikblondiew.

I don't know if I would say be happy and upbeat. There is some debate regarding the particulars of implementing Divorcebusting when an affair is taking place.

There are a few camps.

Michele advocates the "Little Bo Peep" technique as Pupper here likes to call it. This entails being the better person, being a stirling example of warmth and optimism, basically acting as if there IS NO affair taking place. The reasoning is there that all that warmth will make a wayward spouse, even one having an affair, return to the household.

There is a less optimistic technique, I will call the "Ghandi method" for lack of a better description.

The Ghandi method entails something similar. Be a better person, being a stirling example of maturity and optimism, but PROTEST the affair and EXPOSE to all marriage-friendly friends and family who you are sure will support you and help influence the WWS into returning to the household.

I am advocating the latter technique. Its been my experience both in reading posts on this forum and the affair that attacked my home on and off for over three years that the Bo Peep method sends the WRONG message to affair engaged wayward spouses. The message they seem to hear in most cases when the Bo Peep method is invoked is :

1. I am OK with a unilateral Open marriage.
2. I am not hurt at all by your actions, in fact they please me.
3. You may continue indefinitely as I will not interfere in any way.

I find this is what happens when you offer warmth without protest of the affair.

The Ghandi method involves being inviting to reconcilliation and optimistic, BUT... PROTEST the affair and EXPOSE to all influential parties you can. This puts a LOT of pressure on the affair engaged WS, builds some confidence in the abandonded spouse since they are actually ACTIVELY PROTECTING THEIR HOME, and lastly this allows the abandoned spouse to both preserve their dignity and their self-esteem.

I am calling it the Ghandi method because this method involves NO AGGRESSIVE actions directly against the spouse, as this will do damage long term.

No interrupting affair phone calls.
No throwing computers out the window.
No name calling.
No blame.
No physical violence
No locking the spouse out of their computer or home
No threats to divorce

None of that... just EXPOSE what he's doing and tell him how horrible it feels and WALK AWAY.

This is less painful I found than simply smiling and saying "have a nice day"... not to mention it restores some dignity to you in the process.

Michele's got some great advice, even concerning affairs, but being nice and keeping the affair a secret doesn't put an end to it.. it allows it to THRIVE from what I have seen and read here.

There are other family therapists out there, good ones, who don't recommend Michele's approach.. Phil McGraw being the most well known I would say.

Nikblondview, I do understand how frustrating an affair-wracked home is... I live in the aftermath of one even now.

The reasons you are fighting for your marriage are because you love your spouse. The fact that they aren't loving you in return, and are even HURTING YOU is to a degree erroneous.

True love is unconditional. Meaning that you love your spouse, it isn't love-butonlyifyouarelovingmebackjustasmuch

In extreme cases this can lead to enablement of an addictive affair. I do NOT advocate that. But I DO advocate loving a spouse who has strayed and gotten involved in something that has caused them to lose their senses.

Loving does NOT mean playing Little Bo Peep. EXPOSING an affair IS an act of love in my opinion. The success rate of affair couples is less than 1%. When you challenge an affair and protect your marriage you are saving yourself AND your spouse a lot of misery in the long term.

You can look at it this way. If your spouse was drinking to excess or gambling the family savings away etc, you likley wouldn't give UP and run right away. You would TRY to get the spouse some HELP first. Affairs to my mind are no different.

This is NOT enablement if you ATTACK the addictive source to put an END to it. Simply acting as if the addictive source does NOT EXIST ... IS ENABLEMENT and not at all constructive.

I don't doubt your husband felt guilt, but guilt is not enough to get people straight again once they are in the throes of the affair's seductive nature. Guilt is one of the cycles they go through.

AT some point making a break from your marriage because the affair is too painful or destructive is certainly understandable, and only YOU can know when that point is.

I do advocate fighting for your spouse, even when they in their overwhelming hopelessness have given up on you and began aknew in secret with another. Fighting is essential to the memory of your marriage, your integrity, and to ensure that leaving is the best course in the first place. One must explore saving something before tossing it away.

Fighting should not mean rolling over and pretending your marriage isn't under attack by a bottle, a casino, or a wreckless and selfish member of the opposite sex. Homes are precious but delicate and should be respected by all of the community, and shoudln't be looked on by others as inviting targets to feed a good time from when things inside the home have gotten strained. Fighting means full acknowledgement that an attack on your home is underway. HOW you fight that is with integrity, a strong voice, and full disclosure of the truth to all who may help you.


whistle whistle whistle whistle whistle

Allen,

That was beautifully and powerfully stated. I have never -- EVER -- given "5 Whistles."

There's absolutely nothing I can add.

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That is why I love this site. This is such an abundance of wise insight here.


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Thanks guys. I am merely paraphrasing Tuppy, Glass, Davis, Spring, Harley, and others... I think it was Einstein who said "if I see far it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants"

I really am just paraphrasing a collection of professional references...

I would like to expand on both of these approaches in a follow up when I have the time... offer a checklist of how to implement both. Pup I would be further intrested in hearing what other approaches are reccomended... Tuppy actually reccomends immediate cutoff of ALL contact from the abandoned spouse... move OUT of your home and end all contact with your cheating spouse until they end their affair, for example...

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Oh, Pup, the other item I might also like to expand on is exposure, a long while back you made a great post outlining three levels of exposure theory

1. Expose only to cheating spouse
2. Expose only to close friends and family
3. Expose to anyone who may influence an end to the affair

That is a branch of divorcebusting technique. Note I am referring to divorcebusting as a general marriage saving activity, not necessarily an activity that would entail strict adherence to Davis approaches.

So, we could use a different term for it, but I like divorcebusting for now...

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Just as a casual observer (I do not have a spouse that is cheating) but I find this all pretty interesting and I agree with your approach. My question, what happens after most of these affairs are terminated this way. Does the cheating spouse just go off and find someone else? Or does this have a long term effect?


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Originally Posted By: Allen A
Oh, Pup, the other item I might also like to expand on is exposure, a long while back you made a great post outlining three levels of exposure theory

1. Expose only to cheating spouse
2. Expose only to close friends and family
3. Expose to anyone who may influence an end to the affair

That is a branch of divorcebusting technique. Note I am referring to divorcebusting as a general marriage saving activity, not necessarily an activity that would entail strict adherence to Davis approaches.

So, we could use a different term for it, but I like divorcebusting for now...


Actually, most of this stuff is much more aggressive than MWD advises. Out of respect for her, as our hostess, I don't think it would be appropriate to flesh out whole theories here that contradict some of her teachings. I do post from my own perspective, advocating what has worked for me and what I have seen work for others, but I try to be respectful of the differences in philosophies.

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How about a blend--Bo Peep and Ghandi united? Not recommending it for everyone! (but I have exposed and am doing Bo Peep but know Bo Peep isn't recommended by the vets here! :-) )


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I haven't been on here in a while, but I agree with the OP. I did the "Little Bo Peep" for the first 2-3 months after finding out about the A, which only seemed to increase the lack of respect and outright hostility toward me by my W.

I recommend an aggressive (but respectful) approach on ending the A as soon as you find out about it. Don't call your SO a slut/jerk/etc. but stay above the gutter and say what you think is right.


"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
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Originally Posted By: newmama
How about a blend--Bo Peep and Ghandi united? Not recommending it for everyone! (but I have exposed and am doing Bo Peep but know Bo Peep isn't recommended by the vets here! :-) )


"Ghandi" -- as described by Allen above -- already IS a blend. It's a blend of the aggressive confront/expose/transparency/"Plan A-B" stuff of MarriageBuilders, and the 180/GAL/"be-the-better-option" stuff of MWD and DBing.

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I would be interested to find out what impact exposure has if you do it with a smile on your face and making your husband his favourite dinner.

I can't imagine it will be taken too seriously... and what level of exposure are we talking about with the bo-peep/ghandi blend?

Penny Tuppy is even more aggressive she recommends you shut your partner out entirely... disappear until the affair is over. Leave reality totally in the hands of the affair to handle bills, household management. etc... just take off to jamaica and tell your spouse you are'nt coming back until she's gone. And you have someone screen all your email and phone calls and TELL you spouse there is a screen so they don't bother trying to contact you.

THAT is heavy duty... but according to Penny it has success too. Maybe we should call that the Houdini method? lol

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