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I agree that you shouldn't talk about gifts or NC. If they ask you how you are doing, you say "Good! Thanks for asking!" If they ask you if you want to divorce W you can smile gently and say
1)"Thanks for your concern, but I am not in the mood to talk about it now. Let's change the subject-how are you guys?"
2)"Right now I'm just focusing on D and taking some time to myself. I'd rather not discuss it right now."

I have used ALL of the above phrases and no one pressed me for more details. They seemed to understand and I could tell no one was offended.
So I guess I just ditto Cutter but had some variations of "I'd rahter not talk about it" to add! :-)

Hi P, did you see MIL & FIL? How'd it go?

Just got a text from MIL. She has already sent D's card so nothing to collect. Would suggest I go and see them anyway but not sure they'd want that given the sitch.

Advice.

I have a few updates but I'll stick to one tonight.

It's D's birthday tomorrow.

D's mum came home and found a card through the door. It was from W.

First of all the card has my D's name as 'Miss D <D's Mums Surname>'. Yeah? D's surname is actually the same as mine. W knows this. It was a big thing while we were married and fighting D's mum for contact. W could simply have addressed the card to 'D' but she chose to do the other - I can only conclude this is to annoy me. It worked, a little. Then I smiled and laughed. I saw what she was up to.

Second she put it through D's mum's door. Trying to circumvent me. W and D's mum loathe / hate each other.

Thirdly, card had inside 'D, All My Love, W'. There was a voucher inside for £20 with 'Love W' on it.

Finally, I said to W's friend several times that me and D wanted to be left alone. I said that if 'W didn't want to be D's step-mother then she needs to leave us alone'. W's friend even said that she had spoken to her about this previously and explained how difficult it is to be a parent and the difficult decisions we need to make under these circumstances. W has ignored me, her friend and the fact that she didn't get to give D a Xmas present (her fault not ours) which I thought would have given her the message.

So, while I was initially angry I have now had time think.

I actually feel really proud of W. She has done EXACTLY what the old W would have done - she stood up for herself and something she wants. I want to shout 'go girl, fight me' and see the old her back again. See her stand up and say what she wants. That is good and exciting. However, if this is the old W then she's away with OM so that isn't good. Maybe she's clinging to D. Don't know.

Dilemma is, what do I do with the card and voucher. D's mum wants not to give it to D and spedn the voucher - I'm kind of against this (it's become apparent over the last few days that D's mum is actually much more against W than I am!). I have two options:

1. Send it back to W. No note, nothing. Just the card and voucher.

2. Give D the card and voucher and let her speak to W tomorrow (or in the next few days). I don't think she will actually get to speak to her (as W will ignore my call) but she may get to leave her a voicemail.

I favour 2. I read somewhere that once in a while you need to stick your head out when being in NC and test the waters before going back to it again.

I'm looking for sage advice on the best course of action, considering I'm under NC.

Secondly, without reading much into this I am beginning to get a little worried. I still don't have my separation agreement. I don't have D's car seat back. W is ignoring the signs of 'leave us alone' by being NC, her not getting to give D a Xmas present, her friend telling her to leave D alone and me telling her friend that we want to be left alone. While she is leaving me alone, she isn't leaving D alone. We are a package and she knows this. I'm a bit perplexed about what she's playing at - I told her I wouldn't giver her a D until I had the separation agreement (and only I can file) so by her not doing this she is actually holding up the one thing she wanted.

While I know these are NOT signs that she is coming back or even thinking about it (and I'm not getting disillusioned that she is), I am getting a little worried as she may be playing a whole other game whose rules I don't know and by the time I figure it out, it may be too late.

Again, any insights, advice, suggestions or anything else appreciated to give me a little confidence on what may be going on.

I have a few other updates to post about me, GALing and a decision I've made of where I will live, but I will leave that until tomorrow. I must sleep.

I've had 15 mins in bed thinking since my above post.

As much as this breaks my heart, I think the only option for the card is option 1. It needs to go back. Anything else is just cake eating for W. She needs to get on with her life and allow us to get on with ours. What good could come of giving the card to D? W can never have a R with D while she is having an A - that wouldn't make sense - "I dont love you or your Dad enough to have fought for you, but here have a card and a voucher".

D needs to have a normal life and not be constantly be reminded of the step-mum she had. Thats not good for her.

I know I am killing my M a little bit more by doing this but I feel it's the right thing to do?

Still looking for advice on both questions though in last post.

P, this is just my POV on R others have with my children. For example, I don't care much for my SIL, but I see how she cares for my kids and I don't keep them from having a close R. I don't see my kids and I as a package that way.

I wouldn't return the gift. I don't see harm in it. I feel it's keeping your D from receiving deserved acknowledgement of her special day. Maybe there's pettiness in how it was given to her, but it did get into the right hands for getting it to her. She's being awkward, but she's still thinking of your D. Maybe she's coming a little out of the fog and truly missing D. Personally, if a person means no harm and is giving love and attention to my kids, I wouldn't interfere in their R to that person. The more people that love my kids the better.

I think it was a brave gesture. Like you said, you might be seeing the old version of W. She could be testing the waters with D as she wouldn't be as rejecting of her. She did make the attempt to give D a bday gift. Why would she even bother if she didn't care? She could have not done it like the Xmas gift.

Don't know if this is advice, but just my opinion fwiw. I do say that I get won over if someone is great with my kids... hmm...?

Hope D has a great day!!

P, I think your D should get the gift and card. If you end up divorcing (still too early to tell), will D have a relationship of some kind with W?

Also, you let your MIL give gifts to D. And you said it was good to see that W is fighting for D.
There is no cake eating going on with W...D knows fully what is happening currently, correct? So the consequences of W's affair are not being hidden.

Thanks guys for your messages.

This may seem like a tiny issue outside of here but I have actually been thinking about it all night. I just want to do the right thing for D, the M, W, and me I suppose. I have to keep asking myself, over and over, am I doing this to punish W? The answer I keep getting to that one is no, I don't think I am punishing her. I am trying to protect D and me in general and in this case just D.

I don't believe that W does actually care for D at all. I believe that it's nothing more than guilt and a desire for D not to hate her. This is why she was so annoyed when D was told all about what was happening (age appropriately of course).

From the time W left the house here until today she has not contacted me ONCE to ask how D was, how she was getting on at school, yada yada - even in the two and a half months between her leaving and NC being put in place. She had my house number, my mobile number and D's mum GAVE HER her house number and said she could speak to D anytime. She did nothing at all. No calls. No texts. I even texted her at one point to say D had a good first day back at school after the holidays and didn't even get a reply.

She didn't send D a card at Xmas. She didn't send her a condolence card when my mum died.

So I can see what you guys are saying but it just doesn't add up, to me anyway, when you look at the big picture.

The R between D and W is gone as far as I am concerned. W has made a choice on what to do with her life. She chose to leave me and D and not fight for our M. While I can understand that people with children together need to bring them up, W is only D's step-mum. If anybody else acted towards D in the manner that W has over the last 6 months I would do the same thing and cut them off.

D needs stable loving relationships in her life. She doesn't need a R with a woman who left her, wouldn't even tell her about the situation (I had to do it), tries to use her as a pawn against me and tries to contact her, I believe, to satisfy some of her own guilt.

D needs to move on with her life and, I believe, contact with W only serves to remind her what W has done to her, what she has lost and will only lead to her being upset. The dog that W and I had, W has taken too. I haven't seen the dog in probably 3 months. It has a new 'daddy' now. D also misses the dog but again, no 'visitation' with the dog (for want of a better phrase). She has a 'new man' too. It feels a little like 'I have a new life now and it's separate from yours but I will dip in and out of yours when I feel like I need some EN's filled'. That's what D is, an EN. Plain and simple.

And that to me is the crux - cake eating. I know you said you didn't think it was happening newmama, but I have to disagree. W wants to feel that she is still a good person by sending D a card etc. You know, she is still trying to keep that contact there as that's what good people do. Unfortunately, she does it when she feels like it.

DBD, Maybe she is coming out of the fog. I don't know. At the moment, for all the love, pain, hurt and desire I have for her, I don't want her back just now. I don't want to go through that hell again. I'm not strong enough. So if the fog is lifting, I would hope to see other signs of it shortly.

Newmama, I did let (and I hate that word as it feels like I am controlling D - I I'm not - I'm just trying to protect her) - or should I say I had no issues with - MIL giving D a present. MIL didn't do anything and has expressed a desire to see her this year. So I'm fine with that. I don't believe MIL will be detrimental to her and even given the sitch has expressed a desire to be interested in her life. D has lost one grandparent recently and I wouldn't want her to lose another (biological ones or not).

You also asked if W will have a relationship with D after a divorce. No. I don't want her having a relationship with her now so I couldn't see her having one with her after divorce. If, when D is older, she wants to go away and look W up and have a relationship with her that that is cool. That is up to her at that stage. But not now. I don't see it as benefiting D.

So, after all that you are thinking he's sent the card back to W.

Yes?

No. I decided to do a 180. I decided to give D the option. She chose to see the card. I decided to put my head above the parapet and see if W is still shooting at me. I just went against everything I said above. I just wanted to do something different.

After two months of NC (which as I've said before is nothing) I wanted to try something different to see what results it would have.

So today (or tomorrow - you know what kids are like!) I will get D to phone MIL and W to say thank you for their cards and gifts. I will see what results that brings if any. Then I will go dark again. There is no reason for W or MIL to contact me again until Xmas so I'll likely not hear from them until then. Unless MIL wants to see D.

My birthday is Thursday and I don't expect a card / gift from either of them.

Today is the two month anniversary since I last spoke to W.

((P)) I think you made a careful and thoughtful decision.

Hope you have a great birthday... mine is the following day. Let's have a virtual birthday party. I already know what I'm getting from H. See my thread.

I'm not so sure I think I did what was 'right' but I broke NC. I texted W to say thank her for the card and voucher and that I would ask D to give her a call soon. Not sure of the implications with breaking NC but I offered her a small olive branch I think. I haven't heard back from her yet. I may not and if I don't I'm not sure what that means either. The whole sitch with it kind of confuses me. Had a little cry while loading the washing machine (strange when your mind decides you should be upset :)) and have been a little teary ever since. Something as stupid as this and I fall to pieces again. When will I learn.

Anyway, it is what it is. There is little I can do about it. I have put my head up, made a gesture and hope it will be returned in some way. If not, I'll be a bit wiser the next time.



I saw that on FB DBD. I'm really sorry. I'll post over on your thread shortly.

{{{DBD}}}