Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers My Story...possible "grass is greener" scenario?

Sandi,

One more thing that you mentioned that I kind of felt compelled to address was what I was doing on the computer when I was completely missing my SO's desire for love and acknowledgement.

It wasnt porn, although I can see why you might assume that given that many guys do get heavily into that and even develop an addiction. I was actually on the computer playing games.

While that isnt much better, I would never look at that kind of stuff when she was home...and when I did it wasnt much and it certainly wasnt on the computer.

It's kind of funny in a sad way...that since my SO left I havent played one game on the computer.

If she and I do ever reconcile and/or get back together, I may get rid of the computer alltogether.

Given what it would mean had happened...I would welcome the day I dump this thing in the garbage.

I watned to provide an update on my sitch.

This morning when my SO came over she said she wanted to talk to me. As per Gardeners suggestion, I messaged her last night and essentially told her that I felt I had made a big mistake in agreeing to things yesterday.

So we sat down and talked...shorter and more relaxed than yesterday...and with no crying, family photos, etc. She ended up telling me that if I didnt want to hang out with her and whatnot I didnt have to, but that it was my choice to make and essentially not coming from her.

I'm kind of feeling like a guilt trip was being laid on me, or she was giving herself an anti-guilt trip by what she said. It was almost like she was saying if I chose not to take advantaqge of the opportunity she was offering me, it would be my fault and not hers that things didnt work out.

Perhaps I'm misreading that and she was simply being mature and honest.

At that point I told her I didnt realy know what I wanted...so she offered the idea that if I didnt want to hang out this week but changed my mind next week, I know her number.

I dont know if I ever gave her an definitive answer to that or not.

We ended up going to breakfast together, and talked about the gym I'm a member of having an open house day where people can come for free. She thinks she would like to go to the gym with me that day...just to check it out.

While either or both of those I saw as fitting into her specific love language of "quality time" (from Chapmans "5 love languages"), now that I look at what I've typed, I cant help but wonder if maybe she's looking to join the gym to get in shape for the OM.

Crap.

LRTs? 180s? When there isn't at least a basic level of detachment coupled with clearly communicated boundaries for consequences for violations?

I think you may find it useful to re-visit the basics ...

Deep,

I will be the first to admit that I have serious issues with sticking to my guns. When this first happened and I found out about detachment (or no contact as its referred to other places) I tried doing it first but failed for a number of reasons. One of which involved my SO making incorrect assumptions about me trying to do something sneaky behind her back with regards to custody of our daughter.

Every time I thought I was set in maintaining limited contact (e.g I havent heard from her or contacted her), I am contacted by her in some way (usually about our daughter) and I slip. So thats why I'm thinking detaching on such an extreme level may be too lofty a goal.

As far as setting boundaries goes...at this point he only boundary I can see that I could try and set would be involving her relationship with the OM. Since she "said" her relationship with the OM hasnt become physical yet, I asked her if she was willing to remain faithful and she flat out said no. That having been said, I think (assume) from our conversation yesterday and this morning that she knows that if it becomes physical, I want no part of it or her.

In such a case I have every intention of cutting her off aside from picking up/dropping off our daughter and calling in case of medical emergency.

I guess my question based on your comments is should I tell her this right now in no uncertain terms and not just assume she understood that from the way we talked and how I said I couldnt be friends with her while she moved on with another man?

Now that I know for sure that there's another person involved, I know from reading Micheles book that talk of the OP should be avoided...so if I brought that back up, after thinking my point about how I would feel if things were physical was made clear and seeing what seems to be a few positive aspects, wont that be counterproductive?

I belive I've said my peace to her and she knows what I want, so I dont see needing to have another serious conversation about our relationship or bring up her relationship with the OP.

At this point it seems my plan of action is to not initiate contact with her unless its of dire importance about our daughter, go about my life and daily activities without expecting her in it, if she calls/writes/wants to talk respond to her in positive but reserved ways, and if she wants to do things together as I mentioned in a previous post, as long as it isnt interfering with anything else I've got to do, accept.

Does that sound reasonable...or am I just being too spineless and doormat-like?

I can understand if it's the latter over the former...but given that two months ago she told me she wouldnt be going out on any dates with me to give me another chance, and now she's suggested hanging out with me one on one, I would hope it is at least possible to see why I wouldnt want to dismiss things so quickly.

nsw1222,Not so. No contact is just that: NO. Contact. Detachment is altogether different: You are free from concern about the outcome. Any outcome. i.e., you will okay no matter what...and accept those no matter whats. You don't care what she is doing, what she is thinking, what she is thinking about what you're thinking, her moods don't affect your moods at all, etc., etc. Oh, try it first - reaslly try it for a while and then pass judgement on it.Sorry, but you're ALL over the map here. You don't ask if maybe she's gonna kinda be faithful, etc. You TELL it is unacceptable, you will not share your wife with another man. Find and read the excellent thread on Boundaries that Coach started here on Newcomers.I wouldn't talk to her until I got more educated, stronger, and have developed, written down and memorized some simple no-nonsense boundaries with explicit, immediate consequences.Mutually exclusive. Ignoring Michelle's advice. What am I - or you - missing, here?,

At this point it seems my plan of action is to not initiate contact with her unless its of dire importance about our daughter, go about my life and daily activities without expecting her in it, if she calls/writes/wants to talk Don't answer respond hours later to her in positive but reserved ways, and end the call quickly and first and if she wants to do things together as I mentioned in a previous post, as long as it isnt interfering with anything else I've got to do, accept.Why?Because she has free time from OM?

Does that sound reasonable...or am I just being too spineless and doormat-like? You're being a Doormat if you go along with her "hanging out with me one on one' while she is still seeing OM.

nsw1222, you are scared, confused and overwhelmed by trying to do everything at once. You are sprinting - madly. This is a marathom: slow and steady. Be the tortoise not the hare. Re-read DR. Take it slowly, step-by-step. Got one step firmly and automatically incorporated into your behavior? Then go on to the next step. And remember: this is designed to stop the slippery slope to divorce. Not "get him or her back." Or" Repair the Relationship." That comes much, much later with much difficulty.Read Boundaries.
Stop sprinting. You are exhausting yourself physically, mentally, and emotionally and it shows in your posts.

nsw, please understand I'm not taking swipes at you. I agree with Gardener's post, especially the last para.

Detaching is not NC per se. It involves letting W take responsibility for her choices and accepting reality for yourself - you will make progress towards being a better you regardless.

Mind-reading is not going to help. Yes, it's hard not to indulge, but it's necessary. Why the heck would you be concerned with W's gym work from both the detachment and mind-reading angles, for example?

She's your W. You should put your foot down on ANY inappropriate relationship, "physical" or not. You're handing her your nuts on a platter by not "escalating" as long as she is not gonna sleep with OM? And gee, actually condescending to give YOU one-on-one time? She's really working at it, ain't she?

No respect = no love = no M.

Remove yourself from your sitch and think objectively - If you saw someone else post your sitch, what should the consequences of the W's actions and disrespect be?

Deep (and Gardener),

Thank you for your input. I have found the Boundaries thread and have asked for help over there at coming up with a good script/plan to establish a Boundary with my SO regarding the OM.

Also thank you guys for clearing up the difference between NC and detaching.

One thing I feel is necessary to point out is that while we do have a child and lived together, my SO and I were only engaged, not married. This may not make much difference in the advice that is given, but I felt it was worth mentioning again just in case.

Another way to look at the situation would be to think of us as divorced. For those who are divorced, ones ex-wife or ex-husband would indeed be likely to see an OP.

I admit that if my SO is interested in reconciling with me, which at this point isnt clear at all, it's still disrespectful to be considering reconciliation/hanging out with me while pursuing a relationship with this other man at the same time. And yes, anyone else who would post this type of scenario I would likely advice them to do what you all have suggested.

But what I guess I am trying to say is, it isnt as if I can set a consequence for her of D since she now lives with her father and we're already not together.

The biggest consequence I can set for her is not having me in her life in any way aside from being a father to our daughter. She told me the other day that she's having fun with her life the way it is, so even this consequence may not be dire enough to serve as incentive.

With what she told me the other day about being upset and crying because I wouldnt answer her calls for three days...maybe it would. Then again, as I understand it this OM is fulfilling her need for a listener...so my cutting her off and her getting upset may give him the opportunity to move in further and be a shoulder for her to cry on about what a "horrible and mean person" I am not talking to her.

Now that I understand what it means to "detach", I know that if I successfully detach and successfully set the boundary and follow through with the consequences, I have to be prepared for the fact that it could push her right into his arms.

You guys are certainly right though...I AM scared...and I am trying to do everything at once and very quickly. It's like those people in the movies who flap their arms like wings when they're pushed from a plane.

My fear of losing her forever is so strong that it is crippling.

nsw1222,Don't just post there; read every post on that thread.Nonsense. Both sentences.Then do it.Yes you can. Instead of D = Divorce, D can = DONE. With her. Forever.Yep.Believe none of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see!Nonsense. And if it were true, you are 1)assuming and 2)assuming something over which you have no control.That's right. Again, no control.

You've mentioned this book a couple of times, and it's a good book, however, I think that this book is one of those that is better left for whenever the couple is reconciled and are looking for ways to improve the R. I would suggest you lay that book aside and just focus on DR. If you do the techniques that are suggested in most marriage enrichment books, it will come across as extremely pursuing to a walk-away.

Sandi, Gardner, Deep, and anyone else:

I'm looking to see if I should be proud of myself for what I did today...at least the last thing I did. The first part not so much.

Last night, I asked her if she wanted to stop by on her way home from work as she had suggested for drinks. At first, she said she'd think about it but when she got off work, she said she was tired and asked if we could just go to lunch tomorrow and get our daughters hair cut. She ended up calling me and we talked for almost her entire ride home from work.

Therefore, we did the haircut and went to get lunch, but the place was still closed so we went over to Best Buy and walked around. She and I ended up playing the Guitar Hero video game together...and I was on top of the world from the quality time.

We went over to the restaurant and were having a good meal and good conversation when a love song came on and I started staring at her with what she calls "the googley eyes like I'm a supermodel you've never seen before". Apparently, it makes her quite uncomfortable.

She hatefully pointed it out and the wind instantly went out of my sails. The good time we had been having was gone. We tried moving on and talking about something else, paid and left the restaurant, and as we were pulling out, I looked over at her in her car, waiting for "the wave", and she waved but rolled her eyes. I found out later I was staring at her again.

At any rate, I ended up feeling bad at her eye rolling but went on to the gym and came back home. About an hour later, she dropped our daughter off and I asked her if she wanted to sit down. She said she wasn’t going to but that since I had something to talk about she would. At this point, her mood was ok...but that would soon change.

I asked her if she thought tonight might be a better night to try for drinks. I might as well have gone over and poked her with a sharp stick. She got angry and asked me why I was pushing this "lets have drinks" thing so much...that she told me yesterday she was usually tired after work.

I responded that she was the one who originally suggested it (see a few posts ago) and that while I know she's sometimes tired after work I assumed she suggested after work because it was generally ok with her. She then said she thought us having lunch together today would make up for us not having drinks last night.

I told her that it was fine to have lunch together but I was hoping for more quality time with the two of us. I said if after work isn’t good, then maybe we could do it on her nights off.

She responded with why couldn’t we do stuff together during the day, and I said that would be fine too but who would watch our daughter. She seemed to get really bothered by that, asking what was wrong with the three of us doing stuff together.

This lead to her telling me to let go of the past so I could move on and I think I said something about how I wish she could let go of some things too. She told me how my staring at her like I do is aggravating, as are "all these plans" I keep trying to make about her and I doing stuff. She said she didn’t feel comfortable over here (our house...though why would she suggest the drinks here then) and us talking about stuff made her even less comfortable.

I apologized for the staring, while still letting her know how much it hurt that our nice day was halted by the two incidents at the restaurant. But I told her I would make a conscious effort not to stare at her like that anymore and I would appreciate it if she noticed me doing it if she could indicate it to me in a less confrontational manner. She seemed willing on that.

I don’t remember the words that transitioned to the next part of the conversation...I think it had to do with not having false hope for the future and not making promises to people.

At any rate, I told her that if she decided to move on with someone else, I would not be friends with her. I told her I didn’t want to be her buddy while she was with another guy and didn’t want to be the one she came to about her problems when they weren’t getting along. I told her we would have contact only at pickups and drop-offs of our daughter and on school related occasions if our daughter was in trouble or anything medical.

I was extremely calm and polite about it, and told her that I couldn’t control her and wasn’t trying to, but I could control my own actions and myself. I told her I have respect for her and her wish to find happiness but I have to have some respect for myself as well and to continue to be friends with her after she moves on with someone else would make me a doormat.

I told her that most guys when they found out she was interested in someone else, or even when we just split up, would just say "whatever, there are more fish in the sea", but "I'm sticking this out as far as I have because I care about you (my SO), her (our daughter), myself, and us (our relationship).

I then said, that I wasn’t threatening her I was just stating my intentions and that she should keep that in mind as she makes her decisions.

She then asked if I hadn’t heard of people who get divorced with kids who remain friends afterwards. She said, "It’s pretty common around here." I guess that was her attempt at telling me she wasn’t happy with my boundary.

It still doesn’t mean she won’t cross it though.

She ended up telling me again that she's not making promises to anyone and she's now living her life under the idea that "whatever happens, happens", and if something happens between her and I it happens. (and I assume she also meant if something happens between her and OM it happens too I guess).

I told her that that might be how she's living her life with everything else but it didn’t seem to be how things were between her and I, as she continues to hesitate or pull back when it looks like we're headed in the right direction. She responded something about that’s because I keep pushing her.

She was late for work, told out daughter bye, and left...no waves or anything to me.