I am starting a new thread because my sitch just changed radically. She had an EA and I confronted her and OM two weeks ago. I am pretty sure the EA is over. No evidence of contact with OM but I discovered tonight she has a match.com account and has emailed 5 guys in the last 2 weeks expressing interest (since I confronted her and other man over EA). I'm really po'd now. I've been doing 180s and GAL and she has been friendly and I was hopeful of progress (we are still under same roof and same bed) but now that EA is over I think she simply wants to find someone who will desire and pursue her the way she wants and it isn't just about one EA. She's out looking.
She's not computer savvy and left her match.com ID and pw in memory so I looked at the emails she sent. The one that really got to me said "Fun, spontaneity, honesty, communication, respect....without these, a relationship is less than it should be."
Are you kidding me? She's never been much fun, rarely spontaneous and wouldn't communicate openly with me for years when I was telling her we needed to work on our marriage. The ultimate slap to me is the honesty part. She's living a lie and doesn't respect me, our marriage, or her faith. She raises her hands in praise at church. We leave with kids for Disney World for a week tomorrow. I'll put on a happy face for kids sake but feel like serving her with divorce papers when I am back and tell her to move out. Now I have serious doubts if I want to save our M.
How should I handle this if I want to save the M? Do I confront her about match.com and her lack of honesty and keep spying or keep quiet and let it play out? If I confront I know she'll acuse me of controlling her. I've only been doing the 180s/GAL for about 2-3 weeks and she's noticed but it's not enough obviously. Another option is to serve her the divorce papers. Does that work if someone is on the fence about staying or leaving?
Until this point I've been pretty calm and rational doing DR, 180s an GAL but now I'm emotionally labile. I'd really value input from some vets (like Robx, Coach, Sandi2, Greek) but certainly any ideas from someone who has been through this and can give wise counsel. A belated Merry Christmas to all.
Hi Working at it. I went through something similar to what your W is doing. I got caught up in the Internet stuff. It truly is an addiction and the only way for her to end it is to go cold turkey. If she is not willing to do that, then try to get a private meeting with her Pastor to see both of you. Don't let her go in by herself or she'll give him a different story. You call him for an appointment and tell him that it's vital that you go into the office with her. Confront her in front of him about what she's doing. Hopefully, her guilty heart will kick in and she will confess it, which can be her starting place of going cold turkey. I'm sure the Pastor will counsel with her and pray, and that is good....but it's not enough.
So, while you are still in the Pastor's office, you need to tell her that in order to make sure she gets over this tempation that is thrown at her, she needs to agree to wipe clean from the computer everything from the dating sites (and other places), the email accounts she secretly has (and she does) and any other things that are a by-product of that part of her life (and don't allow her to act shocked and play the innoncent vitim). She needs to do all of this while you watch her. Make sure she doesn't leave any loopholes where one can get back on her computer when she connects. That is what happen to me, and since I was so addicted, I clung to him for dear life. Your W will try to keep at least one contact if she can, so be firm with her.
While at that Pastors office, if he doesn't bring up the subject of her need for being accountable, then perhpas you need to say something about it. Just as an alcoholic has to be held accountable.....so does this sort of thing. These men are preditors and she has opened up her home, marriage, and her life to allow them to come in and destroy her. So, it very much includes you also.
This is very serious. I had no idea it could get a grip on a person until I experienced it. It jumps in such leaps and bounds and before you turn around, the person that use to be your W is gone and you can't find a trace of her.
She needs helps and if she won't see what she's doing to herself, then those that love her need to step in. She will probably fight you and be mad enough to walk out, but this is something you need to approach like you would do if she was on drugs or alcohol. I hope you have a pastor that understand how those dating sites work and what happens once there is a connection made. It makes no difference how far away somebody lives b/c it can still ruin your life, your M, you self-respect, your reputation, on & on.
You cannot control what happens when she's at work, but I bet she can get into her work computer from your house....and if so, then she can give your her password to her emails there. She also needs to give you access to her cell phones and anything else that has a password. There are to be no secrets in a M. She is not to have "friends" of the opposite sex that do not include her H. She is not to have private conversations with men about anything after work hours. (If she works.) The point is for her to stop all secrecy and be open about everything with her spouse.
This works kind of like a "cleansing" IMHO. Then the less time she is on the computer for the next few months, the better b/c it will be so tempting and so easy to make a contact. And BTW, she needs to stay away from those games where you chat with the other player b/c that is just a cheap way of preditors making contacts.
In other types of EA/PA this would be called a transparancy plan, and it is usually enforced at the point the W wants to work on the M, but in your particular stitch.....I believe she needs to be dealt with just like one who is addicted to drugs or booze. That is why I suggest you and the Pastor talk to her.....and hopefully she will feel remorseful about what she's done. If she is remorseful, then your next step would be to explain the transparency plan and how it will be for her protection as well as for the M. It is a means to break the addiction. Some may disagree with me, but I'm saying what I see will work-- from the POV of one who has been there. Your M can survive, but it will be "after" she has broken her addiction with all of this stuff. She will have to be watched for her own good.
The addictions can be broken. It must be broken for the MR to stand a chance. For me,the desire to go near one of those sites has not been tempting at all.....but it took some time to get here. BTW, my M is good and we are still together. There is hope for you too.
One last word, if your W balks on you and will not cooperate one bit at the Pastor's office or when you go home, then I suggest you invest in a keyloger. She needs to be motitored and you need to have solid proof of her activities. If she is not cooperating with you, then she will get very sneaky. Your M won't survive that, and you will need to have something to show your lawyer.
Stay on the board and keep giving us details about what's going on. Things will start to pick up more tomorrow.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, thanks for your comments. I'll keep it short since we're walking out the door for a week at Disney World. I believe her EA lasted about 9 months. The match.com stuff started two weeks ago -a couple of days after I confronted the OM and probably ended their EA. I am guessing she realizes the EA is over and was feeling the loss. As I read elsewhere, an EA is like an addiction. Just because the EA ended does not mean she is not still addicted to the attention. I think this may be where she is at - wanting those feelings of devotion and attention and someone besides me telling her how wonderful she is. I don't think she has any kind of addiction to internet dating, shes trying to fill a void. I'll check back when I can. I welcome your comments.
Just because the EA ended does not mean she is not still addicted to the attention.
So do you have a plan of action to put into place? What would you expect from anyone else who was addicted to something? Don't think this will all go away on its own. She's still addicted, as you said.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi2, I don't have a plan of action in place. Partly because we just left for 7 days vacation and feel like I don't want to force an issue that could ruin the best vacation ever planned for our kids. The good part of that is she will be with me or kids at all times and have almost no access to internet without someone hovering. My inclination is to see where this goes after 7 days together and not force anything while on vacation. She has been great all day and seems like progress is occurring, but I could easily be wrong. She sees her Christian counselor the day after we get back.
My thoughts are to talk to her after her counseling session and ask for transparency and accountability at that time. Her biggest complaint about me she has stated is she didn't feel I listened to her. Today she told me she finally feels like I a listening. Should I really force the issue before the end of our vacation?
No, I would not do it during this time. Put your children first. I think it can wait until you get back home. What do you think about the plan I suggested in my first post to you?
I felt that she needed to have her Pastor present with you. Is this counselor a part of the ministry in the Church she attends? If the C will work with you in helping her, then that might be as good as the Pastor. Either way, tough love has to be the road to take with an addiction. You must continue to see her as one who wants to find her "fix".
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi2, I agree mostly with your plan for tough love. I still don't think there is an addiction to the internet and that she was filling a void after her EA was finally ended. I don't know if she will contact anyone when we get back.
We go to a megachurch and I'm sure the lead pastor does not do MC but the C she sees is a therapist associated with the church. W sees her the day after we get back from vacation. I plan to ask W to be completely transparent with email and internet history. If she refuses, what should I say/do? I feel that I should then insist on joint MC & if she refuses that to tell her that I will not live in an open marriage and ask her to move out so that she can begin to understand what her future looks like without me and that I need to begin to move on.
I plan to ask W to be completely transparent with email and internet history. If she refuses, what should I say/do?
Say & do exactly what you planned if she refused to go to MC. You see, if she refuses to be transparent....that is as good as saying she's cheating. There is no promise that she won't have a secret account, prepaid cell phone, etc., even if she says she will be transparent.....but if there is refusal, oh buddy.
My belief about the MC is that it will absolutely do no good if you have to insist after her refusal to be transparent. No heart can be as closed and hard as a WAS. I do not believe (outside of a divine miracle) that a MC could influence her at that point.
If she entered into an EA the first time due to a "void" of any kind.....then it certainly left a void after the EA....which made her vulnerable to another one. I hope you are right, but after experiencing the addicting power that an Internet A can have.....I feel doubtful.
Hope you will stay in touch and let us know.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Sandi2, thank you for asking and thinking of me. Long post – please bear with me. We got back from a week vacation at Disney World yesterday. Overall it went as well as I could expect. There were moments where we didn’t talk much but many times every day we held hands or put arms around each other while walking (rare for us). Even cuddled a lot while waiting in line. Only relationship talk was when we were in the Jacuzzi one night. She brought up there has been no contact with OM since 12/10 and we talked about her counseling and I stated that I own my part of not meeting her emotional needs and she did likewise. She told me she needed something to show her that I was able to listen to her and the gifts I got her for Christmas and her birthday were home runs and the best things I could have done for our relationship. We agreed that she needed IC before MC would be of value. All very positive but she said she doesn’t know who she is or who she will become after counseling and whether we will still want each other. Her IC said the same as mine: she isn’t able to trust anyone due to child sexual abuse that her mother even participated in. The affair was her “rebellious teenager” that was never allowed to be experienced since she had to become adult like at age 11 to protect herself since her mother and father didn’t.
I did an OK job of GAL and detaching some but still need to work on my approval seeking behavior. The No More Mr. Nice Guy book describes me pretty well. All sounds positive so far, right? Read on. W said on drive back Sunday the OM’s W emailed her on Saturday pretty much condemning my W with a “God have mercy on your soul” attitude. My W said the other W is obsessed with exacting revenge on both her and OM and assumes more happened than actually did. She didn’t reply back to OM’s W but did tell me other W threatened to contact me. Well, she did. Yesterday I get a call from OM’s W and she tells me after badgering her H for three weeks she finally got him to confess they had sex in a hotel one time so it was more than an EA.
Surprisingly it didn’t crush me emotionally because all WAS are in denial and lying and I always knew it could be more than an EA. I listened to OW. She is doing the opposite of DBing and demanding remorse and for her H to do step A, B and C and then she’ll think about not kicking him out and divorcing him. I think they have a bleak future. I feel so far ahead of her because of this board and the DR book. If anything, knowing it was a PA and not just EA is allowing me to better detach without the approval seeking nice guy behavior. I went to bed last night and she reached over and gently rubbed my back for 5 minutes. She never does that. And I didn’t respond by telling her how good it felt or trying to massage her in return which I would always do. I said nothing. This really brings home the point that I need to change for me, not for someone else, because I want to be better and I may be on the market again in the future but being my choice and from a position of strength instead of neediness. Now I just have to live it every day instead of moment by moment.
I did not force the phone/internet transparency issue. She has been answering and leaving her cell phone in full view and has not been on the internet. Her mother goes in for open heart surgery today and W can’t be with her and forcing transparency seemed like bad timing. I’ve also seen conflicting advice about trying to monitor phone and internet use. On one hand it is not detaching and can make you obsessive and they will figure out a way around it if you confront them. On the other hand it seems essential to ensure they are not trying to contact OM. Can you advise further on pros and cons of tracking phone and internet history? Anything else that you think I need to do. I greatly value your input.
