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Know what you mean Fran.
I actully never really give a thought to different sex friendships until my h first affair, and even then not too much. I happen to have more male friends from my childhood than female - I was a bit of a tomboy and faster to get into a soccer game or the ultimate cops and robbers play than to play with dolls and make dinners LOL so much so that many girls avoided me 'cuzz I use to loose patience too fast when trying to play with them heheh -.
I never had a problem with my h female friends before. Even now, I don't .. not really. Both ow were not exactly friends. They were ows. Women that suddenly appeared in his life and were able to turn it upside down, but not the person we call or write when we're feeling down, or when we're so happy we want to share that with them. They were never there to support him, or shared any of the things friends share.
But, having said that. I also have to think the other way. It certainly is easier to go from friendship to something more. We already know and like the person. We most probably already share many interests. We already care about the person. We're already used to count on that person. I think what keeps it separated is the fact that we view it as a friendship and don't want to loose that status. And an affair would certainly spoil the whole thing once started, or over. Still at certain times of stress or strong emotions it can happen, and sometimes not even our values can wake us up on time - I suppose. But I also think that an affair born of such a relationship specially if there was still some respect for each other, would easily be ended once the realization that it was happening surfaced.

Meaningless affairs baffle me too. If they're meaningless why do they happen? Or rather - we already got an idea of why they happen - but why do they go on.. and on...?
I wonder if the same conflict avoidance that got our hs to not discuss any problems in the marriage with us, and opt for the affair instead, can play a role on why they continue. They just don't want to go trough the unpleasant situation of having to end it.
I know that in my h's case there is quite a lot of this involved. Even in situations that have nothing to do with his emotions or any affairs. Recently I had proof of this once again. Because he had to quit his job in order to end the affair we found ourselves in a rough financial spot. Having just spend money on buying the trailer we wanted to get for many years and some more getting everything the way we wanted, suddenly there was no income coming. Bills got behind and payments were not made. People were calling us - obviously trying to get those bills payed - and I was the one talking to them. After a while I was left with no more answer nor the will to talk to them once more, explaining the same things over and over again. I asked him to be the one talking to them. AT least for a bit so I could get a break - it is stressfull specially when you don't know when you can get everything up to date. DO ya think he did it????? I got excuses like I'm working I can't call them! - wait a second I"m working too, I can't call either! or I'll call after I finish.. this or that. Not once did he talk to this people. Why? because it was unpleasant. So better to avoid it, not deal with it. Let it go. Had I not talked to them one last time, we could now be without our car that is actually needed for him to do his job. He can't work without it, and stil, he wasn't able to bring himself to call this people and try to work something out.
Could this be why he wasn't able to end this last affair? Or why he also had to quit his job 5 years ago in order to really end it? I think it plays a big part of what happened. IN both cases he did tentatively end it a few times to restart after some time when they pushed for it.
It is a possibility.

HUgs
nightshade

Thanks so much for posting this! It really helped me to understand!

My H started out friends with OW, and he crossed that line. I have questioned myself many times about the "why". He crossed the line without knowing and slipped in where he didn't think he could come back from it!

Well, now I think he realizes and is trying to cross back over to my side of the line!

Thank you so much, I needed to hear this! Perfect timing!

Deb

Glad it helped Deb. That was my idea as I posted.
ANd glad that your h is trying to cross back that darn line.
It is true that sometimes once it's crossed, it becomes so slippery it's difficult to cross it back. But never impossible
hugs
nightshade

Hi nightshade,

Interesting thoughts on your h dealing with difficult things in his life.

My h is like that also.

He is great at burying his head in the sand and hoping things will go away.

I am hopeful that going through everything we are going through now will help him some to realize that really isn't the best way to go through life.

Thanks for all the logic and thoughts here! I always need them.

Hope you are having a great Sunday.

It is absolutely gorgous outside here!!!

Hello Pam, glad to hear that it's a beautiful day there. Not too bad here either, although a bit to the grey side

Burying head goes well for ostriches LOL but our men do have a tendency for that too don't they?

Funny though they don't want to deal with the unpleasantness of ending an affair, or dealing with creditors, or whatever, but they have no problem being unpleasant to us... scary !
Well I think that one is easyly explained. Basically they feel " at home " with us. It certainly is easy to drop things on us or just dump all their negative feelings.. they're used for us to take the fall for them, and it's not like they're doing it to an outsider. Still scary, huh?

My sunday is coming along fine, hope yours is too.
Hugs
nightshade

Hi nightshade,

You are right they don't mind at all to dump on us just not deal with anything else unpleasant. Guess we are the comfortable known factor in their lives.

But we are all here to try to improve the interaction and hoping they make some changes as well, right?


My Sunday is going much better than it started.

Although so far other than trip to the grocery store and one load of laundry I have played on the computer!

FOr a w hile I almost turned in the umcomfortable unknown factor believe me LOL
But yeah, that about summs it up:)
WOrking on a few things I need to finish and coming to visit at the same time.
Hugs
nightshade

Morning Nightshade

I'm not so sure about them getting themselves into something without realizing it. H tried to tell me his A was something that "just happened". Lightening striking you out of a clear blue sky when you're standing in the yard is something that "just happens" and while I can see an EA creeping up on a person, taking it to the physical level is a conscious choice. They are well aware that what they are doing then is wrong but in their selfishness will figure out a way to justify it in order to absolve themselves of the guilt and carry on with their pleasure. Humans are DRIVEN by their pleasure...EVERYTHING we do, work,play, goal-seek etc, is done to evoke our pleasure stimulus...make us FEEL good.

My H asked me "what did you EXPECT me to do?" MY reply, "it's quite simple...you could have been responsible and just said NO." He didn't like that answer at the time...he just stared at me for a couple of minutes then turned around and walked away. He had absolved himself of the responsibility for his actions, I put the responsibility back.

JMO,
Zoo

oooooww!

That borought back bad memories to me~A's...I don't care how it got started, I just want to move to a higher ground. I want H to give OW up totally and until he does, he is not coming home. No cake eating!

Deb

Hi Zoo,

I was not taking the responsability of what happened away from him I was merely pointing to the fact that it seems much easier to get into an affair than what I felt comfortable thinking. I also pointed out that I believe it is how we react to cross boundaries that makes the difference thus putting responsability for what happened on his back, and for what didn't happen - in the case of my story - on mine.
Response to the situation. Not cause.

I understand your saying that once it's taken to the physical aspect it is a conscious choice, and I still like ot think that I , myself, would never go there. But as other people related in occasions of serious stress and lack of self esteem it is even possible that it might happen, or at least that it might be considered. Still I am not saying that this is what happened to my h or am I lifting his responsability for his affair.

Sure people are driven by pleasure. It is human to do so. Our values and impressions of right or wrong - and in some cases the restrictions society puts to us, in the form os laws - are what usually prevent us from runnig ammock in our quest to pleasure. Most people follow those. Some people follow some. And some people seem to loose track of them in certain occasions. Are they responsible for their actions? But certainly. I have no doubt of that, you are completely right there, and in no way was I implying the contrary.

nightshade