Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Why can't I just do it!?

yes!!
knowing what you "dont want" helps you weed out bad plans.. but you cant plan what a good marriage looks like, based on what you "dont want". you need to identify what you DO want, and put it up there, so you have something to aim TOWARDS, rather than something to run away from.
If you want to get to the north pole, you could mistakenly define that as "well, I know I dont want to go SOUTH..."
But that can take you a whole lot of other places that are neither north nor south.



ya know... maybe you need to take an old fashioned female approach to this. (waitaminit.. I'm attempting to coach a woman, about being female??!! oh well, lets go with it.. )

in old school stereotypes, men demand, but women... just kinda get their way, without the men realising it, and without ever realising there was ever a "fight"
[goes back to the old "Men Are Dumb" mantra! never forget it ]

There is a difference between "identifying what you want", and "demanding what you want". There is a difference between "pressuring for what you want", vs "making progress".
You can make progress, without direct force. You have already applied "force/pressure". It worked: you got his attention. Now use what you have gotten (before it fizzles out again! you dont have much time on this before momentum wears out! coupla days at most I would guess!)


Now, I'm too male to be able to offer you SPECIFICS on how you do this... but maybe, after you have identified what YOU want in the relationship... you get him to go along with it somehow, using feminine wiles. And by that, i do NOT mean sex!!!
I mean more of the gentle-spoken, come-along-with-me-it'll-be-fun sort of approach.

The tricky bit, is getting his... "head"... to understand, that "commitment", and "fun", are not mutually exclusive.
Maybe you need to remind yourself of that first

eh.. I could ramble on for an hour attempting to explain what I mean, but maybe i've given you enough positive ideas?

I think I hear what you're saying...
I love your North Pole analogy!
I hope that the momentum isn't gone already since I won't be seeing him again until tomorrow night.

There is this woman named Rori Raye that suggests that women be soft on the outside, and strong on the inside because men love women because we are able to have such access to our feelings. She also says that women really have it wrong in that we totally overfunction in relationships, when the "male energy" is to "do/give" and the "female energy" is to "receive/feel".

You have just alluded to sort of the same thing.

I must be overtired because I keep reading what you wrote over and over and then I feel baffled and overwhelmed...like I am taking something really simple and over complicating it.....It was a long day; maybe I have just lost touch with my inner goddess-lol. Like when he said that he thought we would never be rid of each other and that it was frustrating and pleasing-- what *should* I have said back (besides- 'duh!')? I am tired of being patient, I guess. He's the one that painted himself into a corner. I've spent all this time patiently (mostly) waiting for him to "decide". I mean, when he asked what I thought the big picture looked like, I kinda felt like "oh, here we go again. I am supposed to 'sell' myself and the marriage. yuck." I never seem to have the "right enough" answer when he asks me questions like that. (Like in August when he asked if I thought we would get bored snuggling on the couch.) hmm..but now as I think back, when he asked my what the big picture looked like and I wasn't sure what to say, I ended up saying "Well, it would look like you have a "[my nickname]" in your life. And that's pretty dang awesome!" He laughed at that and agreed.

heh.

well, consider this:
Why is it the stereotype that women are the ones to drag the men off to counselling, etc?

Because its usually women that have the whole "plan for the relationship". Men who care, may grumble, but they recognize this and follow along. 'cause if it was up to them, they'd just make a mess of it, 'cause they're clueless.

Go be that woman.

Your husband may even be expecting you to be that woman, and figures "that's the female role".
So... dont put him in the position of being "the female". Fully take on that role yourself: maybe that's what he's waiting for?
Kinda sounds like it to me.

before, you have been pressuing him to "commit" to a very vague, nebulous "life with you", but "life with you", is very vague to him at this point. it could go a lot of ways. he doesnt know how it's going to be like, so maybe thats why he wont commit.
tough to "commit" to something, when that something is a vague squishy lump.

So give him your plan. Stop looking for "his input" on it, just make the plan yourself, as good as you can. Then give it to him.

Be as specific as possible. Let him know in detail, how its going to work. Cautious unsure men dont want to hear a very vague,
"yes we'll be together and we'll have fun trust me".
They might feel more comfortable with ,
"we'll make sure to go [up to the mountains?] every year. ANd dont worry we'll do [boating trip too]. And how about [...] that you've always wanted to do?
And if you always try to be nice to me and make sure to always [whatever makes you feel better about him], I'll be all over you at least 3 times a week!"

It's another stereotype that men like to focus on actions, rather than feelings. for most men, it is TRUE!
See how the above focuses on actions? that will probably make him a bit more comfortable.

PS:


Why yes. Yes you are supposed to :-/

a good MC will "sell the marriage" to both of you. But since you two arent SEEING one... you have to do it. sorry

Well, he came over last night and we talked some. It didn't go well. It didn't go horribly; it just didn't go well and I am coming to the point of saying "Maybe I should just believe what he says."

The usual song of "I just don't know what to do with you" was said. (Tiresome, really.) But this time I tried to delve deeper instead of "validating".

He said that he thinks about both the pros of divorce and pros of reconciliation. His first 'pros' for D were that he wants to refi the house and he could probably do that if we were divorced. And that DD might have an easier time getting student loans if we were divorced. :| He is scared out of his mind considering living together. He doesn't feel "ready". And that when progress is made, he feels like we're moving too fast. (Wtf?! What progress and where is the movement??)

Then he went on to say that if we got a divorce, we could get back together and have a whole new ceremony, etc. (again, wtf?!) I told him that I thought he might be underestimating the impact of destroying the marriage/family. Like the difference between remodeling a couple rooms burned in a house fire vs trying to rebuild a house that's been blown to smithereens. He said that he DID know that and that is why he hadn't filed yet.

His very biggest concern is that he will check out again in the future and even right now, he is somewhat numb to "us".

His current goals are to quit smoking (starting today) and really curb the drinking so that he is not escaping his feelings anymore. He is getting rid of clutter in the house and trying to clear his mind so that he can figure out what he wants in his life and also what to do about us.

I did describe my big picture of what I want and he said it sounded really good. FYI,previously, I have been very specific on what we could do that is fun, etc. And I did describe some specific fun things, but more importantly I said that I wanted someone that was committed to ME so that I wouldn't always have to feel like I am waiting for the other shoe to fall if I say the 'wrong' thing. And that *I* think a commitment actually is "freeing" and not restrictive because it allows both partners the room for growth and expression without the fear of being left.

BUT

Today I have tears dripping from my eyes non-stop because it just keeps popping into my head that he really is saying that he isn't a man of integrity. That he can't make the choice to not "check out". This is what I mean about maybe I should believe him. Maybe I should listen when he is clearly saying that he just doesn't want me enough to commit (to paraphrase.)

I am upset and sad because he always has more justifications/reasons for divorce than reasons to stay together... His reason to stay together; he doesn't want me out of his life; he doesn't want to lose me (which are "big", but not specific). But his reason's for divorce are well thought out and specific. Coupled with the general fear associated with living together again.

He keeps talking about how he needs to "make a decision and stick to it", and "stop being a pssy", and just "man up". Not exactly sounding like reconciliation to me. )#&$^!!

awww... i know how you feel, Trixi.



yup. that's what he's saying. you are right.
But there is no "cant" involved, as you wrote later. This is 100% a "wont".

However, that being said...



Actually.... it does to me. At least a first required step.

He is recognizing that he has been a total morally bankrupt schmuck. And for once, HE is saying, that he needs to "man up", rather than us, or you. So... that's progress?
Fickle wimps, (or little boys) cant make commitments.
Sounds like maybe he's considering exiting his MLC, and considering growing up into an adult.
(at 40. well, that didnt take very long.... )


The next question for you is: What actions on your part (and "doing nothing", or "doing the same thing" is a choice of actions) are going to best encourage him to "man up"?

Some people might say, that the best thing to do, would be for you to, GENTLY, and CARINGLY, say, "yes, you do need to 'man up'. You need to make a decision as to what is important to you, and live your life that way. You know that if you choose me, I will stick with you forever.
So now I will let you be, while you choose".

And then stand back, until he makes a decision. ie: go "grey", and stop doing things with him.

That's ONE approach. Another would be to just "cut back" a little.

Another, would be for you to take the initiative and bring up R talks every couple of days. Not EVERY day, but every couple. and ty to keep it short, and in a positive environment.
Doing something fun for an hour, but talk for 20 mins, or something like that?

I'm actually surprised in a positive way, that HE is the one recognizing his wimpiness now. Good luck to you.

Ho boy.
Last night when he left he said he would call me later on in the week. He just sent me a text asking if I wanted to go out to dinner tonight. (Great! I've been crying all day long so I'm puffy and red. blech.)

Anyway, at first I felt like "hey, that's cool" and now I have a pit in my stomach--- probably how a guy feels when a girl says "we need to talk."

But he wouldn't be so awful as to dump me in a restaurant, would he? Of course, maybe that is "nicer" than having me fix him dinner and then him doing it...

Trixi,
right now he cant dump you. Sweets, you have passed that point. Think about it.
If you dont feel like going, dont. To me though, it doesnt sound bad...
We all hit low points, it's part of the routine. If you do go, will you be able to NOT get emotional?
Good luck whatever you decide to do
K

I am too paranoid for my own good; (of course, that is what happens when you are constantly waiting for the ax to fall.)

Turns out he wanted to celebrate his first non-smoking day. We had a very nice meal out. He did bring up a small R talk when he said "What were we talking about last night? ...Oh yeah, that I need to get my head clear." I said I supported him in doing that. He was very flirty.

@Dom, you are right that it is good that he is wanting to man up-- but he's been saying that since October, so.... LOL

@Kalni- yeah, I guess he can't "dump" me...what do you call it when you move out of limbo to divorce?

I have been reading dday101798's piecing story..interesting that in his opinion, he thought a divorce was a clean slate and necessary. And he's the LBS.....

So, it's been two weeks..what is up now?

BTW I totally identify with the observations/fears that these husbands really are not men of integrity.

You know, even as I type that I already know it is wrong. We don't fear that they have no integrity. We judge by the actions that we visibly observe, they have shown that they have no integrity.

The bad news is, they have not acted in respectable ways. The good news? That can change...