Happy New Year Lan. Stop whining about the weather....by the way whatever water was in your wife's vehicle is ice at -10C. I am glad that you confronted your wife with the e-mail stuff. You know deep down that she is lying. If I chat with a woman and I am friendly with her, I will not hide it from everybody.
As usual, it is an interesting dynamic when one partner expresses that they have had enough. It causes the other to not want to lose them.
I wish you much success in your discussions this weekend. Remember to use more "I" / "Me" phrases instead of "You" phrases.
I suspect there really is not she has to bring to the plate other than to not have hidden conversations with other men and to open up more with her libido and affection towards Lan.
As usual, it is an interesting dynamic when one partner expresses that they have had enough. It causes the other to not want to lose them.
The very same thing crossed my mind. I think it's called co-dependancy. I didn't think too much about it when I was reading about it in the early days, but here it is in living color.
After one major bust up and a week or so of not talking W and I finally had that talk and I think we made some significant progress. As Kerry K mentioned in his previous post to me there seems to be two underlying issues in our M, the first is W secret IM, txt friend and second is the lack of intimacy in our M.
When we had our talk W tried to focus on the big argument we had and the specific details which led to us not talking, but I had to take her back to the fact that any problems we have now can be traced back to both of the issues I have just mentioned. W tried to justify her friendship as “its just someone from work” and “there’s nothing going on we just talk about work things” but I countered with ”If you need to talk about work why does it need to be done by txt at 7am Sunday morning, and why does it need to be kept secret”. The more W tried to explain it away the more I countered with points which showed her to be in the wrong, I pointed out to her that she was making more of an effort now to justify this friendship than she does to justify our M, I also asked her to point out how this friendship could possibly be benefitting our M, all of these points lead to some very long pauses in our conversation where W was doing some deep thinking. So on the txt’ing and IM I’ve left her with the thought that if that’s what she wants then go ahead, cos I’ll be gone. 2010 is going to be a different year for me where I do things to make me happy.
We did touch on intimacy in this first chat but W was less than forthcoming, I did asked her directly if she still found me attractive and if she still had sexual desires, because I could walk past her stark naked with a big boner and she wouldn’t bat an eyelid. Thankfully the answer was yes on the first point, but on the second she said she didn’t want to discuss it at this point as she didn’t feel comfortable or able to express herself.
Last night we talked again and W did open up a bit on what the sexual problem was. Unfortunately W is one of the small percentage of women who never experiences an “O” during penetrative sex, in fact W has never experienced the “Oh, oh, oh my god !!” feeling nor has she faked it. We both new about this when we first got together but W used to laugh off as not a problem, but now the sexual experience is leaving her, empty, angry, frustrated and feeling like a failure. I did ask her at what percentage along the way she feels she gets towards an O, to which she said about 80%, but as she has never experienced one that 80% could really be 30%.
Before the advice comes flooding in let me explain that W has a very prudish attitude towards sex (which is why her A shocked me in the first place) she has never explored herself and doesn’t agree with female masturbation, she is not into being probed with plastic objects or handling anything that buzzes or looks like a rabbit. She is very much a straight laced up and down missionary person, and if that doesn’t work then there must be somthing wrong (with her or me).
So that’s where we are now, back to going to bed at the same time, taking thinks slow and trying to come up with a solution that will work for both of us, the main thing is we are talking about something she has found difficult to share with me in all the time we’ve been together.
Hey Lan... wow, good for you for stating in no uncertain terms that her behavoiur is unnacceptable.
In 2002, I had a work 'friend' for 2 1/2 years, which I insisted was nothing, just friends, we just talked about his work, his fiance (she had pyschosis).. etc etc. I defended it, he was my 'mentor' when I was a trainee programmer, so I would insist we needed to spend lots of time emailing/lunching. But I had secret convo's with him, endless email chats (I saved them all).. I swore blind he was just a friend and indeed, we werent having any kind of physical contact (apart from the final 2 weeks!). I saw my friendship with him as 'mine', my RIGHT and work based...and was NOT open with my bf about my true feelings.
So basically I was lying. To my BF, even to my own BFF, to myself... I also 'lost' my sexdrive during this time and blamed it on repeated viruses I kept getting. Looking back, I was secretly caught in some grip of fascination with OM and had therefore transferred my limerance to him, making me unable to really engage in ML with full body, mind and spirit... whilst deep down knowing this OM to be an arrogant toss bag who wouldnt be a person worthy of spending my life with!
It took me more than the 2 1/2 years to see this and possibly longer even, after we were no longer in contact (and I was fully pieced with my bf then, who forgave me and hung in there as you have done). I can understand your W not wanting to lose you.. I too was terrified my bf would leave me and insisted we needed to just spend more time together (whilst daily emailing OM!!!). I was cognitive of that at least.. I KNEW I was lying because I thought if I was in any way honest at all.. bf would leave me, as you have threatened to. I was eventually honest with him and he moved out. But, when my bf threatened to give up and move away to another city and start over (and he seemed pretty uncharacteristically done at that point)..it was the wakeup call I needed, I panicked and asked him to move back in with me.. it took time to mend, but that was the turning point.
I think we KNOW this OP is not good for us and not our destiny. I saw it, looking back, as some unconcious battle with commitment, a rite of passage... that I was fighting this great man that arrived in my life and 'settling down' although even know I cant honestly say that was the reason behind it, it feels more nebulous.. but I no longer battled with the idea of committing to him for life once I had 'seen the light'.
It sounds awful recounting it above, because I am not the kind of person you would imagine could behave that way above and yet I did. I dont know if this story helps or hinders. Maddening as her behaviour is, I always feel people act this way because they DO love you and dont want to lose you, as perverse as that seems.
Maybe I wisened up in time to not lose my bf, but I wouldnt have blamed him if he had given up and left me and I would only have had myself to blame for that.
On the other issue... I guess you have tried to talk to her about pyscho sexual counselling? Because her being non-orgasmic sounds absolutely to be a mental issue, that she feels certain things (or even herself, or her own body) are disgusting and unnacceptable. Being unable to explore oneself is like a rejection of self, right, which is perhaps a negative message she learnt as a child/teen.
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Hey Ali, Your story is an absolute help for me in my understanding of what is going on in my W’s head. I mean I’ve had a look at W’s txt mate on FB and he’s a hundred miles from the type that she would go for. I showed his picture to a friend and the reaction was “OMG, WTF is W playing at”. I don’t think there is a sexual attraction on W part, I think this guy unloads his problems onto W and I think W discusses some of the things she feels she can’t discuss with me, but if friendships like this go unchecked who knows what may happen. Also like your BF did with you, I’ve told W, this is, I’ve have enough, and I’ve done it with uncharacteristic determination so for her it is a real wake up call.
On the other matter, I think it was a massive step for W to admit to what the problem was, looking back now I can see life has been a big charade of sexual avoidance on her part. I’m not sure where her negative images on sex come from but I hope that will come out when we continue to talk, and at the moment she is willing to talk.
Last night we talked again and W did open up a bit on what the sexual problem was.
We still talking about this, W has already mentionted this to her doctor who suggested a sex therapist. At the moment W prefers to talk, and see if we can work this out ourselves. So we still talking.
Lanzo, talking, good. Have you considered letting her calls go to voicemail once in a while? Not in a passive/agressive way, but more like, if her car is having trouble, shouldn't she call AAA instead of Lanzo? Self-sufficiency, everyone takes care of their own needs.
