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Hijack. City. Help me out here. Does the boundary need to be stated? Just like in Kevin's case my W wants to have play family without being M. Should that boundary be stated? How?

And yes I do suck at boundaries as well. After all I am a recovering Nice Guy.

Have you even read the Boundaries book? Not skim, but read and fill out the workbook that goes with it.

Quit making excuses and JUST DO IT!!!

At work do you go to managers with problems or solutions to those problems?

So, basically what it all boils down to is as long as you know a "tangible reward" is at stake (money, marriage) then you have no problem setting boundaries BUT the idea of setting boundaries to become a man is not something you deem as necessary as there is not "tangible reward" in that?

Wow.

Without the mindset of being a man that commands respect and will tolerate nothing else you will never have the tangible stuff. That should scare you silly and I have no clue why it doesn't.

Deep doubted it. Deep doubts it.

. Sorry. Couldn't resist. I would say reading just the last 2 pages or so of posts may not have made my jaw drop, but I'm at least slack-jawed now.

There are no emotions involved when it comes to business or work. It is strictly business. If they can't offer what I need, I am looking else where. The same applies to them.

Kevin

Haven't read the book or done the work book. I didn't know there was a work book.

At work, yes, I do go to management when things need to be done differently. Whether or not they agree and go along with it is sometimes beyond my control. But oh yes, there are times when I have to show them the lunacy of some of the things and time frames they are requesting as well as how better to not waste our time when they are pushing for shorter deadlines so we can be more effective.

Kevin

If you don't think emotion is part of the self employment package then you will never make it as a business owner.

Passion, drive, dedication all require an emotional investment in order to make the business work.

And, if you think being self employed is as simple as "if they can't offer me what I need I will look elsewhere" then you might as well put the idea of being a business owner to bed right now. As the service provider it is your JOB (passion, dedication) to present your services in a way that shows existing or potential clients you are *exactly* what they need. You will learn that real quick when the bills are piling up, vendors need to be paid and taxes are due.

Like anything in life, the key to operating a successful business is utilizing creative solutions that offer mutual benefit. Do you know how to do that?

I defend myself quite well at work with valid points. I gave up defending myself and my stance with W because it just made things worse. I obviously didn't deliver my boundaries correctly with W. But at work, I have no problems in that area.

Kevin

I meant if work can't offer me what I need, I will look else where. Obviously that is a different situation when you are self employed. With work, I can find another better job. With business, it is all about making the customers happy and providing the best service possible. Don't get me wrong as the same applies to work, but the difference being if things get ridiculous at work, there are other options. With business, that may not be the case so you have to make that one different and adjust accordingly to keep the business up and running. But again, your original question was about not being paid. I am not going into business to work for free. Payment is a must. I don't go to work for free either.

Kevin

Boundaries are not about "defense".

Boundaries are set and enforced to create a healthy dynamic in all areas of your life.

Example: You stated how you dread the monthly bill talk with your W (who you have not lived with for over a year and is sleeping with other men) yet you where given multiple suggestions on how to change that. You chose not to set a financial boundary and instead you chose dread each month. Do you feel that is healthy? IOW you would rather be uncomfortable, nervous and on edge each month than set ONE boundary that could last a lifetime and remove the monthly dread?