Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers how to 180 when you've been too independent?

In my experience on these board (pls. look at my # of posts; I was also registered as "Chocolateeyes" going back to 2004) and another marital/infidelity site, I have almost NEVER seen the "Little Bo-Peep" approach work (you know, "leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them"). At least not when it's accompanied by behavior that tries to be their "friend" and to actually COMPETE for them. It's not effective in drawing the wayward spouse back, and it absolutely eviscerates all but the strongest of betrayed spouses' self-respect.

On the other hand, I've seen Pearl's approach work hundreds of times.

Just my experience.

Puppy

Thanks again, all.

Puppy--I'm not clear between your advice and Pearl's. After getting past the initial shock (crying, asking for a second chance, writing a letter wherein I acknowledged my faults in the R and expressing love, etc) I have acted very calmly. The most I did was request that he move out (he had moved to duplex apartment) He originally requested that I move to the apartment, so he could have the GF in the main house. He is angry that I "won" the house.

But I have been cheerful in his presence, cordial emails re finance, generally acting like "I'm OK"

So is that "Little Bo Peep", which you advise against? What's the diff between being Little Bo Peep(acting calm, "hoping" he'll come home, living my life) and Pearl's advice, which is also GAL, take care of self.

If my 180 is "don't be so independent" how to accomplish that without pressure, pushing, etc?

Pearl, what is the difference between"wait out the affair" and "tough love?"

Yes, the avermont he fell in love with was very independent,but he has also expressed over the years his need to see me need him more.

I tried that by asking for help with house maintenance, and paying bills, but since he is so angry that I am in the house, that seemed to backfire.

I apologize if I am not responding to posts in the right way--still trying to figure out how to manage the list. Never posted to a group BB before!

avermont

A,

I'm not that familiar with your sitch. I responding more to Pearlharbor's reply to you than I was to you directly, and just sharing my view on the subject of the two contrasting styles that Pearl mentioned. I do think you should be positive and upbeat in his presence, but I don't think you "hope he'll come home." I prefer Coach's (look up "Stockdale Paradox") and SmileyPerson's ("I'm already dead") approaches. I think they better protect you emotionally for the rough road that lies ahead.

Put more simply, I don't think you should try to "compete" with OW, or in any way cater to the cheater. I think your GAL stuff needs to be for YOU, not for them.

Puppy

And yes, it sounds like Pearl and Grr and I have a lot in common.

Pearl, I have been digging back through your threads, trying to capitalize on your wisdom.

Belive me, oh wise group, I am taking good care of myself, and GAL all over the place.

But of course I am sad, desperate, heartbroken, etc.

I don't see how acting my usual cheerful independent self will make me seem more interesting than the "lots of sex, no job so lots of time to worship him, living with him so she can show devotion 24/7 GF".

Puppy--I am also looking back through your posts. I understand that living the best life I can will help with future R with other people, but still--how to demo to him that I have learned to be open, vulnerable, talk, commit, be intimate? when all those sorts of things are only demonstratable if he ever wants to talk about our R.

Thanks again--

I don't think you are really seeing how your logic is failed..

Let me explain...

So.. It took him TWENTY THREE YEARS to finally decide that you were too independent and that he felt you didn't need him?????

Don't fall for that nonsense... Independence is the thing you WANT to have here.

He is blowing smoke here BECAUSE he has another woman. This is just an excuse. Don't buy into it. This is the time when an independent woman would be showing strength. Maybe you only thought you were independent huh?

Please explain why you two never married after 23 years.

You don't do them to "demo to him."

You do them for YOU.

In making YOU a better Avermont, you will have the highest likelihood of attracting him back, but that shouldn't be your focus nor your motivation.

Puppy

Why not marry after 23 years?

Again, (and I'm working on "this is all my fault!!" I resisted it. For the first many years, neither of us cared.

After many years, I knew (though we never really talked about it) that he would love to marry me--cause he wanted that reassurance of my love and commitment.

Until about 4 years ago, I was definately hesitant and unsure and afraid to commit. (issues I am working on with counselor). Then I began to shift and did want to think/talk about marriage. But our level of communication on these deep, intimate topics was so low, I never had the courage to bring it up.

The essence of the failure of the R is: my inability to CLEARLY demo love/commit; LSD my part; his willingnes NOT to confront and ask for what he wanted; low communication on intimacy issues though we had a full, busy, active, happy life together.

I do have to say that even if we had married, I am betting that my LSD would have given him the excuse for the A, anyhow. All I would have is the additional complications of a legal divorce. I think.

First of all, let me say that I was/am not holding myself up as a great DBer. I just feel like I understand where you're coming from more than some others here.

Answering your question:

Puppy and gucci are advocating the position I took eventually (because I listened to them) of tough love, i.e. moving forward by yourself unless he comes around and asks for another chance. It entails not rewarding the WAS' crappy behavior because you have decided what is best for you and act accordingly. If you're interested, read Dobson's Love Must Be Tough and posts by gucci, robx, Coach.

Sad, desperate, heartbroken...I understand all these. Just because you never married doesn't mean you didn't assume both of you were in it for the long haul.

Why are you feeling desperate? For me, I was afraid of what life would look like without BF. And I realized I was making a lot of decisions based on fear. Once I let go of the fear I knew I would make it through this no matter what and that led me to truly letting go of BF and working on myself.

And only then did BF pull his head out and realize what he was throwing away. Because he felt and knew that I was done with his sorry ass and moving on to bigger and better things. And then he had to convince me that the best thing for me was to be with him.

Avermont, as a MAN, I just want to say one thing:

I have never met Pearl, and have no clue what she looks like. I'm not hitting on her, and my wife and I are doing better than we have in YEARS.

But reading a post like that? there at the end of it?

THAT IS SOOO FRIGGING ATTRACTIVE!!!!

Food for thought.

Puppy

Wow does that feel like you're talking about us except for I didn't have commitment issues but I was sure BF did.

You're working on the commitment issues with an IC, good. That's something that you need to resolve for you.



Bingo. I did bring that up with BF in the early days, I asked if we had gotten married would he be more willing to work things out. Nope. When they're in the affair fog marriage vows don't make one bit of difference.

So that's another thing you can work on improving for you. You can check out the SSM book which has a lot of insight into this issue. And believe me, turning this around will benefit you no matter what. I didn't even realize that I was LD (well, I knew I was compared to BF) because I had been that way for so long. Once I got my medical issues turned around I definitely noticed the difference. Don't focus on the R aspects at this point but do figure out the causes for your LD.