Divorcebusting.com Forums Divorcebusting.com Archives Surviving the Big D Archives I've Come Full Circle #27

Actually I wasn't singling any one person out in particular but responding to a sentiment that I hear from time to time here in these forums.

OT, I get part of what you're driving at, but your arguments do indeed support embracing the OP. You want to believe that the OP is just another ordinary person, just an innocent bystander who happened to be there when the former spouse bailed on the M. I don't think even you really believe that, do you?

And Kerry, that's where your own father's logic falls down. If he were to have taken up with a new W post D then that new woman would not be an OP and was thus not an accomplice to breaking up your family. I too anticipate the possibility of remarrying some day, but that lady will in no way have had anything to do with wrecking my children's family -- so very unlike their mother's OP.



I think you're projecting your own misconceptions onto me here. You imply that my stance is borne out of a desire to recover a R that no longer exists -- you couldn't be further off mark. No, this is borne out of my love as a father for my children. It is precisely for the welfare of the children that I argue. I can understand sacrificing or at least attenuating one's stance for the sake of peace for the children, which I do. But sometimes burying one's head in the sand about what kind of person is being foisted upon your children is a far greater harm. Sometimes "peace" at any cost comes at too high a price. By gilding the t*rd, so to speak, excusing the unrepentant offender, what message about morality are you really demonstrating to these children here?

Neither I nor my children can help the fact that either one or both parents have proven to have fallen short in preserving and securing their family. They have to accept the hand they've been dealt and make the most of it. But expecting them to embrace some stranger who was instrumental to the dissolution of their family and thus jeopardizing their security is just wrong -- and that is what the WAS has done.

As for the OP being no worse than the other parent, while that might be true, I've got news for ya' -- the parents are a given in the children's lives, the OP is not. The supposition that the OP is "important" to the children, simply because they are important to the wayward parent, is a false premise. The OP is wholly unnecessary for the proper healthy raising of the children, and it is my contention that they are a detriment.

You see, forgiveness is one thing, but moral complacency is another.

NoCode -

I understand what you are saying about giving the wrong message to kids that it is acceptable to venture outside of matrimony.

But I also think the kids will come to their own conclusions over time about what happened to their parents marriage. I came to my own conclusions that what my mother and step father did was terribly wrong. My father did not try to tell us how we should feel towards our mother or step father.

There really is not much one could do to control whether our X's expose the kids to the OP post D.

It sounds like you feel it would be best to plant seeds of resentment into the kids minds in how they act and percieve the OP who helped to break apart their family. Please, tell me if I am misinterpreting.

So, how do you get "innocent bystander" from "equally guilty, blameworhty, culpable for horrible things"???????

A parent's romantic partner/significant other who is in a child's life IS an important person, whether you like it or not. I agree that they aren't a given, that they aren't essential to the child's well-being, that in many cases it would be better if they weren't in the kids' lives.

But, we are talking about when the OP IS IN THE CHILDREN's lives. Unless there is a threat of emotional/physical harm that rises to the level of legal action being possible, you (and I didn't mean you in particluar, I meant "you LBSs in general) CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Lack of acceptance of this and ongoing fighting, bitterness, resentment harms the children.

Further, pretty much everyone here was willing to take back a wayward spouse who had an A. That means that they believe a person who has had an A is capable of being a decent, loving person, and parent, when kids are involved. If the WAS are redeemable, then so is the A partner.

Furthermore, who is suggesting that the children should be forced to embrace the new step-parent figure? As far as I can see, the only suggestion is that the LBS leave the harms done in a no longer existing R in the past and stop putting their kids in the middle of bitter adult relationships to avoid making love toxic for them.

I am so glad I got such a heated debate going. I see all the sides but do you wonderful people think I can have my thread back now?

kat

Lol

I

You are misinterpreting. I would NOT advocate planting seeds of resentment in the children. But even though I can forgive the WAS and their A-partner that does not mean I have to accept an unrepentant -- emphasis on the word "unrepentant" -- person who is trying to reap the benefits of their sins against me and my children. I will take no action against them or their own actions unless those actions run counter to my own convictions.

But by no means am I in any way obligated to grease the skids for the OP's attempts to try to horn in on my children's lives.

And while I have taken the policy of not referring to the OP at all, with my own goal of eventually treating both he and the ex with pure indifference, if my kids ever do ask me one day about this matter, I will tell them the truth and not sugar-coat it.

Hey kat.......so how do we shift this convo? It's getting hot in here!!!

Let's see.......what are your Thanksgiving plans?

I'll say one more thing, Kat, and let this thread get back on track.



That argument doesn't fly. With our WAS we held out the hope that they would repent of their mistakes and come back to the M (in fact, biblically, we are obligated to give our spouses the chance), but without the repentance that is impossible.

The OP, on the other hand, might very well be "redeemable", but the fact that they might persist in the R with the LBS only proves that they themselves haven't repented.

Bottom line: You can forgive people who have not repented of their sins against you, but you can never reconcile with them until they do. Does any of this shed a light on what I am trying to say?

No code, I do agree. I would never have taken my H back as long as he was still in the throws of his MLC(as he continues to be now). He thinks he has done absolutely nothing wrong, doesn't see how hurt his children have been and thinks it was fine to continually bring his GF around instead of rebuilding what he broke with the kids.

I can't change that. I can't MAKE him feel sorry. I can't heal his relationship with the boys and I certainly can't make them want to be with him. The girls don't want to be with them either but he forces them to go. Even bought D10 a cat to "make" her want to be there. And if you are wondering I do tell them that their Dad loves them and it is only fair that he gets time with them.

Now, as for Thanksgiving. I won my choice between a turkey or a ham. I need to put that in the system tomorrow. I have tried both types of turkey and honestly, I like it better when I cook my own after it has soaked in brine overnight. Everyone likes ham so I think that is the way I will go and then just buy a turkey breast to roast as without former in-laws around, no one cares for dark meat.

Thanks for the discussion, now back to our regular kat musings...

How the kids will handle things going forward is going to be interesting. After my dad, my mom had two serious boyfriends, one fiance, and two husbands in, get this, 17 years.

The first boyfriend was a fisherman. I was not. We never took to each other. The second wasn't athletic but he was funny and smart. I liked the guy. They married but it fell apart in about five years. I still see him. The fiance is a long story, but I worked long and hard to submarine that one because I didn't want to move.

Then she went out for several years with a really nice guy she should have married. I was gone by then, off to college and real life.

The last guy she met on the Internet several months before she died. She married him had plans to move to K.C. when she had an aneurysm. For this three-month marriage, the guy got 50 percent of her estate.

I've never asked my sister who she liked and didn't like.

When I look at my girls, D7 is someone who just latches on to whoever is around and fun. She'll always love me but I could see her being fine with whoever ends up in my life and STBXW's life.

D10. Hmmmmmm. She's very close to me and she really, really, really, really, really wants us back together. She's an actress. She'll pretend its OK but she's going to struggle big time.

I'm just guessing, but I don't think any of this bothers W right now. She refuses to discuss the M with the kids at all. Her parents stayed together even though they had an awful M. My guess is that she grew up wondering why and never really saw M as a covenant.