Thanks honey. I'll consider your advice. In the back of my head, I think she is trying to see if I desire her. Her silly friend told her I would be trying to put the moves on her. Then again, in on breath he tells her he can hook her up with someone and then tell her he won't have to because we'll work it out.
A few weeks ago, she walked in on me while I was getting ready for work standing there but naked. In pre 180 blackrook world, I would have flipped out. Although we dated for 6 years, lived with each other for 2 years and have been married for 2 years, I'm shy about being naked in front of her. She just busted in saying if you didn't want me to come in you would have locked the door. She did it a second time as well. I sometimes wonder was this an invite or an attempt to pick a fight. As I didn't flip, I'm sure that was a surprise for her. She also commented that after a D, she couldn't find anyone who would do my special foreplay games. She cursed me for turning her on to it.
But then again, there's the don't touch issue. I've seen her in the corner of my eye checking me out. Since this has happened, I lost 20lbs.
Ahhh. But I ramble. This woman is a contradiction of the book. Some vendor sent her flowers and she had to let me know about it. She said that she had thought I sent them at first but knew my money was funny. I heard a hint of dissapointment in her voice. To send her flowers would violate the DB/DR book.
On the other hand she heard me talking about the D on the phone. She then said "I thought you were ok with this, are you telling me you're not ok?" I just told her no I wasn't ok with it but it is what it is. This made me wonder if she wants to be chased. But then again, it's a violation of the book.
I'll start trying this tonight and report. She's wearing scrubs today so I don't know if she'll believe me although I wouldn't mind playing doctor and getting an exam
Towards the end of July, I shocked her. My labido returned without warning. It was a pair of shoes that did it. She said I started doing this because I knew things were getting bad. Not true. I thought she was too sexy. If I didn't know better, I would think she sprayed on something.
"In the back of my head, I think she is trying to see if I desire her. Her silly friend told her I would be trying to put the moves on her."
Yes she is trying to see if you desire her. If lack of sex was one of the reasons for her wanting to leave, then this will have to be rectified before she agrees to return to the relationship. Regardless of whether she actually wants to have sex with you, she will have to know that you desire her in order to want to come back to the marriage. As far as her "silly friend" why is it silly to think that a H would want to put the moves on his own wife? I'm not following that one, but I don't know all the details of your situation so I apologize for that.
Here is my take on the bathroom bust in, for whatever it's worth. Above all, Blackie, she wants to be able to be HERSELF around you. That is true intimacy. She cannot do that if she is always editing and monitoring herself because she is not sure how you will react, what you will think of her, etc. I would bet that she has no hangups about being naked around you but that she has picked up on your negative feelings about your own nakedness and transferred it to herself. Now she is convinced that you view her naked body with the same unease as you do your own. Having to stifle your sexual self is really really hard and it does NOT foster intimacy. It erodes it, little by little. Your wife is going to need to feel safe enough with you that she can let that side of herself show without fear that you will think it's: silly, ridiculous, inappropriate, not the right time, lewd, immoral, etc.
I'm not saying that any of this applies to you personally, I am just trying to illustrate that a person's sexuality is a sacred thing that you show to someone that you trust. She needs to trust that you won't reject this part of her again. I agree with you that she is crying out for signs of life in ol Blackie. What do you have to lose? Show her a sign and then step back and take stock. See if it had the desired effect. If not, then don't do it again. But for pete's sake, don't not do it simply cause it's not in the book, right!
Honey, the reason why I say her silly friend is this. This guy in one breath tells her she would be better off leaving me, in the next take a step back. The next breath "I can hook you up, then but you guys can work it out. Then he says from what he can see I'm a nice guy. She is confused by this guy.
I started my operation get her back this morning. I didn't really intend to do this. She came in the room and bent over to get some cloths well..... she turned around to catch me checking her out. So I think she did it again on purpose. When she came out of the bathroom, I told her she was looking nice today, not to say you don't look nice every other day. After I get out of the shower, I hear her yelling through the door. She forgot her rings. She rarely if ever forget to put her rings on. So I let her in and told her she should have just came in. She then replied that I always lock the door. I told her not anymore.
Later after she left, she called back to ask for a recipe. I volunteered to make her something for the pitch in so she doesn't have to do it when she gets home from her second gig.
I wonder if the ring thing was in reaction to me checking out her but? Or just what was it. I don't want to lay it on too thick but I will continue this. When I told her she was looking good, she said thanks but in a low voice as if she didn't believe me.
I also hear what you say about not doing something because the book said so. I'm torn right now with the flower thing. As I said earlier, I detected a hint of dissapointment in her voice when she found out the flowers she got was from her vendor.
I'm still thinking about the chase thing too. If her reasoning is he doesn't want me, then I may have to chase a little bit.
Another bit of detail. The other night, she was going to meet her friend for a drink. She came down with a tight top the teeny boppers wear. She shook it up and asked me what I thought. At that time I was like why would you wear that. Looking back I should have shown her it was a turn on. She hasn't worn it since. I think this was done to make me jealous and to gauge me reaction.
I will say that her breasts are a big thing with her but not me. I'm a leg and thigh guy. She had a little procedure on one of them and it left a small scar. She told me that I never touch her breast because of that. This just came out from 5 or more years ago. If I had known. The last time we were intimate, she took my hands up there. I never knew, she never told me. In fact, she was telling me what she wanted me to do. She took control like I've been begging her to for years.
I think you're on to something! Keep doing some low level flirting with her and maybe it will start to melt her heart a little.
The low voiced thank you...yes I have done that too. It is a mixture of wanting to believe it SO bad and being too afraid to let yourself go there. With my H, the only thing that made me start to believe his words was repetition. When I saw that he was going to keep being this new sexy guy...and it wasn't in reaction to me threatening him..I started to soften up a little and enjoy the compliments. Eventually, I reacted kindly and THAT is what really keeps him saying things. I know you can relate to that.
The shirt...well, I know what you are saying. Here is how I think you should have handled it: Wife: How do you like my shirt? BR: I think you look hot, but I gotta be honest and tell you that I don't want anyone else seeing you like that. I know what it's doing to me right now, so I can only imagine what it would do to other guys. Do you have anything that is not as sexy as that??
That accomplishes two things: One, it fulfills her need for admiration. But at the same time, you are not left with being a doormat and pretending to like a shirt that you really think is inappropriate for public wear.
As far as her taking control, yes that sounds familiar too. In fact, I think that a lot of our problems stem from the fact that both H and I want to be the submissive one. We both want to be the one ravaged and not have to be the one in control! We are both learning together how to best please the other one. If your wife tells you or shows you that her breasts are a big turn on to her, then try to incorporate that into your daily routine of acting sexual around her. (this is presuming, of course, that you get back to a normal R with her) Yes, I said a DAILY routine. Sex should be a thread that weaves in and out of all of your interactions with her--not just something that you pull out at bedtime, if you are both awake enough for it. She has a deep need for your sexual admiration of her..give it to her, just like you've been doing, and I'll bet that she starts having second thoughts about leaving!
Thanks again. The only thing I worry about in saying how nice she looks is she may think it's a trick. I'm still trying to figure out the leaving the rings in the bathroom this morning. I'm hoping it's something. I will try a little low level flirting. I was half tempted to send her an email at work that asks about something else and then slide in there how hot I thought she was in her shirt this morning. Do you think that's too much too soon? I've noticed over the past couple days, I think she's been showing off the object of my fetish more and more. I don't know if I'm reading that right or not. The last time I told her she was turning me on, she told me I was making her uncomfortable and to get over it. Of course this was 2 weeks from her D announcement. But this put a stop to me sniffing around her butt. Maybe things have changed
She works a 2nd job and comes in tired. I'm lucky to get 15 minutes with he before she conks out. Of course, this is part of our disconnect. I'm trying to find a way to show it then. I feel just a little movement in her over the past couple days and the a feel as if I've moved 2 steps back. But I guess as one of my friends said, if it (the R) then that a good thing and you can work it out.
I'll have to fill you in on my sitch sometimes. Most of it has to do with the ssm stuff. In fact, I think that's ALL it is. She used me losing my job as a trigger to get want to get out.
I think she is wanting some sign of life from you. If she is displaying her legs for your pleasure then she is, at some level, wanting a reaction to that. Maybe it is not "hey I'm gonna jump Blackie tonight", it might just be "I want to torture him to get back at him.." kind of thought, but the point is--she is directing those thoughts towards YOU and I think that is a huge bonus on your part. It shows that she has not given up entirely yet.
You know her better than anyone, so if you think that her forgetting the rings was a 'test' for you then you are probably right.
What about this...since she told you not to say anything to her, I think you should say to her "Honey I know I'm not supposed to act like this, but I really think you've been looking hot lately. I just wanted you to know that." And then drop it. If she is interested in this behavior from you, she will continue to do things to induce it. If she's not, she will let you know.
Be prepared for it to make her mad. Speaking as a Formerly Rejected Wife, I can tell you that when my H decided to come back to the land of the living, I was mad as hell about it. I would react badly and ask where those feelings were all the years that I desperately needed them. He had no answer for that. There IS no answer for that, I know. But what he did do was BE CONSISTENT. He gave me the same message--I desire you--and backed it up with actions, week after week after week. It was about a year of this before I felt myself starting to believe it fully. I had completely shut down that part of myself towards him, because I could not stand to get hurt any longer.
And like your situation, the deterioration of my marriage was almost completely due to the ssm. Sad, huh.
One thing that my husband said that really struck a chord with me and helped me to believe that it was genuine was that he came to me and said that he felt that he was ready to make a big change in himself. He went on to say that he had resisted it, over the years, but that he was on the verge of a big change...he could feel it and was embracing it and encouraging it. He said that he was ready to be a sexual person.
I think that he had had those thoughts for a long time but he was scared to say it out loud, to commit to a course of action, for fear that he would backslide and then make things 100 times worse. Once he had maintained that sexier attitude for an extended period of time, he was realizing that he was changing into that person full time. And then he decided to tell me about it.
I relay all this to you so that you can see the chain of events of what could potentially be in your future.
What about saying something like this to her: "I feel myself changing into a better person and I want you to be a part of it with me."
Would she react positively to that, or would it drive her away?
I don't know how she would react to that. I just went into a slump. I went home for lunch and found a bill for her lawyer in the mailbox. I know it's not over until the ink is dry. Then, she calls me to tell me one of the kids got in trouble at school. Then she tells me that she doesn't want me to handle this. She said she needs to get used to handling these things by herself. I told her how the kid started to hide in his closet when he was upset. Well he did it once. She was mad because I didn't tell her. The boy asked me not to tell her. I think I told her because I wasn angry and wanted to "show her what divorce will do." I think I put myself back 10 spaces.
It was great that she called me. I'll let things cool down and start over again. She's told me that she's closed off her heart and doesn't feel anything. She said I have made her not feel like a woman. I don't think today will help my situation.
But I will keep on chugging. More updates to follow. I'm making a lot of changes in my life. Going to church, listening to her talk about her day and such. On Sunday, she asked me if I was going to church. I know she is curious and she sees my changes. But I did a back slide. I opened my mouth. By not telling her of this thing, I showed I couldn't be trusted.
I want to knock myself out. I just told a friend to watch what he says and I did it myself.
Blackie, Just keep saying to yourself that you lost this battle, but the war isn't over yet. This is ONE incident and you can recover from it.
Women have a tendency to link all the past wrongs that a person has done to them, with whatever the present complaint is. That is, she might say "you always do stuff like this to me--you never change!" etc. One thing that my H does that is very effective with me is to keep repeating that this was one incident...an isolated thing. He keeps coming back to that, so that I can't keep linking the present fight to the past. He will say "I messed up here, I wasn't thinking, but it has nothing to do with the past and please just cut me some slack on this one." Or something like that! I am not illustrating my point very well, but I just wanted to encourage you to not give up. Keep going and keep reiterating to her that you did the wrong thing this ONE time; it was a bad judgement call and no more. Then drop it and go on with your other DB'ing techniques. And fast!
I can attest to the "un-woman" feelings she is having. I went thru a period where I felt like an It. All of my femininity and sexuality had been zapped by his non-interest in me. I couldn't look at myself stepping out of the shower; I was disgusted at myself. It is an intense self-loathing that she is going through.
Good luck to you and keep up your PMA. Stay strong and she will be attracted to your strength.
Thanks honey. Your words and the words of a friend have lifted me a bit. I will continue with DBing. I hope that she see that I'm changing and the changes will stick. Last night when she came in, she was all bright to tell me about her day. I listened as usual and muted the tv. Something I didn't do in the past. Well she went downstairs and checked her mail. I just left her letter from her attorney in the mail stack. This morning, she wasn't as bubbly. When she left, she said her usual bye and thanked me for making a dish for her pitch in today. Of course I wished her a good day. Her reply to this and the thanks were in a low tone with what I think was a little hurt. Her tone when she thanked me for making the dish was low but there was something else in it.
I will try to keep up the compliments as I see her. One of our problems is we only see each other at best 1/2 hour a day except on Sunday when she catches up on her sleep. This of course is another reason for our problems. I had a hot dream with her in it last night and so wanted to tell her about it. Maybe that will have to wait until another day.
I know you said the low tones were some type of defense, but I don't understand the double low tones this morning afte being so bubbly last night. She's always said running away was her defense. I'm trying to slow that run down to a trot and then a brisk walk and then stop it.
Do you think the letter from the attorney caused her mood to tank?
Maybe it just reminded her of her original and "true" feelings? (I put that in parentheses because I believe that she thinks they are true, but I also think her resolve is weakening in the absence of fights and stress)
I'm no expert on this, but try to give her a reason to doubt her decision tonight. She will have been thinking alot about that letter from the lawyer. Make her wonder if she is doing the right thing by being loving and attentive, as much as she will let you.
By all means tell her about the dream. If tonight is not a good night, then wait til another night. Well, actually, Blackrook, I just had a thought: Do you WANT a sexual relationship with your wife? I mean one with some regularity? I am operating on the assumption that this is something that slipped by the wayside with you and that you want to re-gain with her. Is that the case? I don't want to be encouraging you to act sexual around her in an attempt to win her back, if you don't really want to make this a part of your life.
But that is the assumption I got and I think I'm right! I wish you the best tonight...I hope her mood is bright again.
