Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Depressive WAW or Depressive MLC?- both with an EA

Well I am chuckling to myself.

This day I have personally come to reassess where I/we are, and what seems to work in communicating with my WAW.

I came to the conclusion of Validate, Validate, ......

I came to the conclusion that I will generally only respond to her words with ' I can understand.... or It must be hard.....I can see.....'

I came to the conclusion that I will not discuss back to her, I would allow her to continue expressing herself until she stops, and then respond with the above.

I came to the conclusion that I MUST Listen, Listen, Listen.....

I came to the conclusion that Men try to 'fix' things, Women talk about and around things. And this talking is their way of seeking support.

I came to the conclusion that my WAW has been seeking for my support for the past few years, and that I should provide that support in the manner that SHE wants - not how I think she needs supporting. I/men try to provide practical ways of support - women need emotional support more.

These are the conclusions I came to at work today.

Today my WAW picked up my boys from school and stayed with them at the family home till I arrived from work at 10pm.
She intended to make a few phone calls, have a bath and complete some college work.

She succeeded in having a bath and winding herself up only. The kids played up as they can, they had tea late and then wouldn't go to bed.
But, earlier in the day, the youngest said that he didn't want his mum to pick him up from school, as she won't let them play out.
And it also turned out that both kids had said to her that they didn't want to be with her at her brothers, that they wanted to be at home with dad.

So......
I came home tonight determined to try out my new conclusions that I stated before.

I could see in her face that she was p**sed off and frustrated when I walked in.

And off she went, venting her frustrations and anger. Some of it was my fault she said as I let them play out, and I seem to give them more freedom - even though I am the boundary setter and chief enforcer with the boys.
I gave her the 'I can understand.... or It must be hard.....I can see.....'
She told me how she had gotten nothing done as per her plans because of the kids and how if she came back she would still get nothing done.
I replied with the 'I can understand.... or It must be hard.....I can see.....'

The she dropped the bombshell that the kids had told her over the weekend that they didn't want to be with her. I truly felt sorry for her and I replied with the ' I can understand.... or It must be hard.....I can see.....'


She calmed down and now I wasn't the focus of her anger, she made excuses for the boys as they were kids and were too young to understand the pain in their words.

She told me not to talk to the kids about their actions and words to her.

We had a good long hug - when I released the hug she hugged me again tighter.

She then left, but I felt - and thought I could see it in her - that we had connected more and that she somehow felt better for getting it off her chest. She was looking at me with 'softer' eyes. I think you could only say this about someone you really know.

She did still walk out of the door, but she seemed more relaxed.

This is why I started chuckling when I read your post.

I read your post only 10 mins after my WAW had left - and it seemed to match my own conclusions from during the day.

And it really seemed to work.
I mean really.

For once I can't wait for our next conversation tomorrow. I want to continue listening.....


Questions;

The way the kids act up around my WAW is part of the reason why she walked. To everyone else they are very polite and well mannered, to me they know the boundaries and their limits, but to my WAW it just opens her nerves - she just seems to have never set the limits for them. This is a typical setup in how moms & dads interact with the kids - good cop & bad cop.
Is there anything I could say to them to get them to act better to my WAW when I am not around?
If I say something it will only be unfair pressure on them as they will then think that If they don't act nicer, mom will not come home. And this would be very cruel to them - they would think it is all their fault, and I can't do that to them.

Is there any way to interact with the boys and not have them telling my WAW such cruel things?

Could these cruel things make her think about the damage she is causing?


Face your fears. D not fear D. Work on YOU. Become the best YOU you can.
Change the way you interact with waw and the whole R changes.

I do struggle to not fear D. I accept it may happen, but I do fear being alone.
I have now discovered how I should be interacting with my WAW. As DB says, change what doesn't work.

Well I am going to change how I LISTEN and interact - I now understand this, and I saw a more positive interaction from my WAW.

Lets try this way for the next few weeks.....

Regards,
Gyn.

Ps
Thank you
Ready2change

The blind now sees! I am glad you "GOT IT"! Isn't it a nice feeling. Good job. A very good first step.

I posted this to someone else yesterday:


You are now on the right path.

How hard was it to change YOUR behavior? How hard do you think it is going to be to change SOMEONE ELSE'S behavior?

OWN your relationship with your kids. Let W own her relationship with her kids.

If W ASKS for your input, give her choices (love and logic) or "Let me think about that."

Thank you for the sage advice.

It was like having a veil lifted from your eyes when you realize how you should be interacting and supporting your wife .

Tonight I gave the same interactions with my WAW - we were conversing for 45 mins with me doing the usual 'I can understand.... or It must be hard.....I can see.....'.
But tonight it was different. There were no emotive topics that she brought up. So there wasn't the same connection between us, but she seemed to enjoy talking more and had a lighter mood.
She never seemed to want to stop talking - she must have told me the same things at least 3 times.

This is only day 2 of this 'unveiling'. So lets keep focusing upon the small things that I can change.

She made arrangements to babysit her first Grandchild for this Boxing day - she said to her daughter that she would babysit no matter where she was staying on Boxing day.

This hurt a little, in the way she may be making plans around not being at home. But I know where me and the boys will be - this is one thing I can influence.

But lets keep looking for and focusing on the baby steps - and not look too hard into them.

I agree with the list of positive changes that you gave. They pretty much encompass what I discovered during my 'unveiling'

Thank you for the focus you gave with my children. You seem to have said what I was trying to say - but I floundered to put it so clearly.

I especially like the 'Love n Logic' guidance.
So simple.

Thanking you for you time and thoughts. The only way I can reward you is to describe any improvements that may occur in myself or my relationship with my WAW, and kids.

Regards,
Gyn.

Here is a big 180:

90% of communication is "Non-verbal". Body language is very very important.

Sooo....Listen to the words, but focus more on YOUR body language and observe hers.

Here is an example: When I am listening to a woman, I study her eyes. I smile a lot. I mirror her facial expressions. Nothing is more important than what she is saying. I have an OPEN body position (No arms crossed). If I am experiencing something I PERCEIVE as negative, I pull up a pleasant memory, which changes my facial expressions. I also deepen my voice and slow down the pace.(Calming and sexy)

Chalk another one up for dropping the rope and 'Mmmmm....., I understand........, I can see......' ect responses.

Walked in from work last night and I could tell something was wrong.
I nearly left my coat on it was so cold....

I asked about her day and received one word answers.....
I asked about the boys,..... and received two word answers........

I waited, I could see she was holding something inside herself.
I waited,......
Still no out pouring from her, and so at the last moment I simply asked ' What is wrong..?'

Bang!
It seems that she had gone through our family wall planner and on the day she became a WAW I had written ' Walked out & abandoned kids'.
She was very angry and it just spewed out of her. The odd expletive and a lot of emotion ensued.

I was cornered and gently explained that emotion was riding high that day, my wife had just vanished, and I was a mess at the time.
She continued by telling me how she'd tried to fix our marriage for 5 years, how she felt alone and angry and how that she'd been unsupported by me.

At this point I dropped the rope, opened up my body language – I am a proponent for the understanding of body language, had read hers to judge the moment to just listen and understand how upset she was, - and now I just LISTENED.

I gave all the ' I can see / understand / feel.... ect responses.

The things she said did hurt, but slowly her anger lost focus on me and settled upon what she wanted from the marriage and the future.
She told me that she was trying to be flexible around my needs and that of our boys and how it was affecting her.
I did not try to offer any solutions or to 'fix' her situation.
She told me how she was not getting the support from her family.
I knew that she wouldn't get their real support – only their words not actions. Here I responded with the Mmmmmm type answers.

Then the real truth came out that she was desperate to come home and that every day she aches to be with the boys and me in the family home. She said how it is tearing her apart, but that she could see no other option than to walk out to force a change in me / us.
She explained that it is still too painful for her to come home – and she used the words 'come home'.
She told of her pain when she heard the boys say that they didn't want to be with her but with me.
I gave the responses needed to validate her feelings.

Then seeing the emotion in her I walked over and gave her an unbidden hug.
She broke down and hugged tightly.

By now her face and body language were relaxed.
She wiped her tears.......... and then gave me a kiss on the cheek.
Not a air kiss or touch of cheeks, but a proper kiss,
and then she said 'Thank you' and kissed me again.

Since she'd walked she has never show as much emotion and been so close to me in regards to kissing or 'connecting' to me.

I was gobsmacked, and nearly responded with the banal 'What for...?', but I knew it was for me just listening and being there and giving her the emotional support she needed.
I responded by simply whispering 'Thank you.' And I meant it.

There was some light-hearted banter between us, and then she left. But I could see that she was relaxed, and serene in her mind.

A lot came out of the conversation to give me real hope for the future.

A lot came out of the conversation only because I LISTENED, and gave supportive responses.

A lot came out of the conversation because I judged her and my body language correctly.

It has only been 3 conversations since my 'unveiling', but to me the change has been dramatic, and the responses from my WAW are beyond my expectations.

This will take time to heal, and as my WAW is still confused and has given me an insight has how she wants to come home and aches to be in the family home – now I realize that time is now my friend.

If I continue to improve myself and how I listen and interact with my WAW, if I give her the time, space and most of all, the emotional support that she needs and craves.

I believe that we can repair our M.

I am on the right road.
It will be long, and both up and down hill.

I believe!

Regards,
Gyn.

Ps – Ready2Change.

Thank you again for you confirmation that the conclusions that I came to were both real and correct.
That the realizations from my 'unveiling' were not just a vain hope and a grasp of a whispery ideal.
And that they have a foundation based upon someone elses real life situation.

What you are doing appears to be working. Keep doing it.

Well it has been a few days since I last posted, and has there been any improvements.....

There has been no angry and/or harsh words between us still.
There has been no mention of D still.

She has said she can see changes in me. The one she most seems to notice is my new found ability to listen to her and communicate better.
She has acknowledged my overall efforts.
Every time we meet she brings up some topic of our R near the end of our time.
She has mentioned that if she had given up on our M that she would have walked out long before.
She said that I have given her more time and space recently - she asked if this was because I had given up on the M, or that I was giving her what she asked for.
In the past 2 days she has told me she still loves me.
She said she didn't leave to hurt me or the kids but because she saw no other alternative.

She found out 5 days ago that me and her Daughter will be spending Xmas together with her new born child. My WAW was expecting me to spend Xmas at my parents - as she was going to hers.
Now she has found out that her daughter will not be going to her side because the daughter feels uncomfortable and would feel 'like piggy in the middle' as my WAW's EA has already been offered a place at the dinner table at my outlaws for Xmas - all arranged and pushed upon everyone by my WAW.

Since this bomb was given to my WAW she has spoken of our R at every meeting. She has spoken often about my changes and of her reasons for walking out.

With reflection, it is 2 months since my WAW left. I have only been applying the DB methodology for the past 3 weeks.

This is still a short time frame no matter how I look at it.

I have seen changes in my WAW's attitude since I started DB.
I have seen an even greater change in our interaction since I learned to listen.

She even asked if I would like her to come over some time this week to talk more about our R.

If she turned up this would be quite a shift.

But I remember - Ignore 90% of what you hear and 50% of what you see.

The good news is that if I look for the baby steps as MWD advises, I can see them.

I take it as a positive that she informs me that she didn't give up on our M during the days leading up to the WAW moment.
I take it as a positive that she now says that if she had given up on our M she would have moved further away.
I take it as a positive that she asked me if I had given up on the M or had given her some time and space - that she wanted confirmation that I wanted to fight for our M.
I take it as a positive that she has told me that she didn't leave to cause me pain - It feels planned to shock me into action.
I take it as a positive that she is talking more about our M in some shape or form - at every visit.
I take it as a positive that her hugs seem to last a little longer - and are harder.
I take it as a positive that she is on her way over today to spend a few hours with me and the boys - she is also bringing her first Grandson so she can take some photographs of me with him and the boys. All of the first photographs have the EA in them. I realize that the EA was taking my place at the birth of the Grandson. Perhaps I am now taking my rightful place in her mind....
I take it as a positive that she has told me she still loves me - twice in the past 4 days.

I take it as a positive that I am not thinking about her all the time.
I take it as a positive that I now have at least 15 days where my boys can stay at home and I can spend time with them. I am on holidays from work and it matches the boys school half term holidays. 15 days with the only contact between my WAW and me and the boys will have to come from her first. I am not going dark, but she asked for time and space, and so she will have 15 days to miss me, the boys and the home.

Question - should I arrange for a day out with the boys and ask her to come along?

Regards,
Gyn

Hey Gyn,

Great job focusing on the positives. Keep up your positive changes.

Set up the day out with the boys.

Statement to S: "You are welcome to join us, but I will understand if you chose not to go"

Puppy Dog Tails has a wealth of knowledge on A. Any input for Gyn?