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Thanks Carlos and Michelle.

Sound advice indeed from both of you. I guess I needed some reassurance that I was doing the right thing. Thinking with emotions and cognitively are definitely two different things. Letting my emotions drive my actions doesn't lead to good DBing.

THANKS again for keeping me in check. Sometimes hearing it from other people puts me back on the right track. Patience and love. Patience and love. Tough but necessary.

Thanks Carlos and Michelle.

JR

Journaling.

Yesterday evening my GALing was walking in the PX so I didn't have to stay home thinking and wondering. This morning I did yard work for an hour, raking leaves, cleaning flowerbeds to keep my mind from thinking. I'll go to the gym later on.

I haven't had any contact with my boys and W for a whole week. My W is usually good at having the boys call me after I leave a voicemail on her cell phone. This past week, I called 3 times, left 3 voicemails, but no return phone calls. So I emailed my boys instead to just say hi. My S12 emailed back once, but that's it. This bugs me. I try my best not to assume or speculate. There has to be a logical reasons to all of this, I tell myself daily.

MichelleLT mentioned that my W is withdrawing, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is negative. I hope so. I want to call and check in with my boys at least. But I'm afraid if I call my W's cell phone too often, it may be interpreted as pursuing, or begging. So I decided not to call for now.

Anyway. I am trying to stay busy mentally and physically. That way I don't have to be too emotional thinking about the constant feeling of loneliness. I don't think I'm doing too goog of a job right now. But the day has just begun, so there is plenty of time to plan...at least for today.

JR

Journaling.

My S10 called to say Hi. That made my day. He said he and my S12 were going hunting with Granpa, my W's father. I'm glad they are going to have fun. I really want to call my W, but I don't want to sound pushy or needy, so I have decided not to call her. Maybe she'll decide to call this time? No idea. I am the one who is used to calling her weekly to say Hi. But I'm going to do a major 180 and not call. Let's see what happens next.

Anyway. I have this friend who called me yesterday to tell me he was getting a divorce. He told me how happy he was that he's in control of his life again. I guess he ended his limbo status with a D. I am not at that point yet. I don't feel D is the answer to my situation. My W is pulling back, I get that. But this is not the end yet. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself or refuse to see what could happen. I don't know.

JR

Hi JR,
While I understand why you would want to respond to your W's withdrawal by not calling - I'm not sure that's the best solution - since it would impact your children. That's part of the reason I think a scheduled call with your boys a couple times a week might make things easier. That way, your W would know you're not pursuing her - and you could still get that valuable time to talk with your boys.

I ended up getting a cell phone for my son last year - he's 12 now - and, while I was reluctant to give him something like that - it has made a world of a difference. Though I get along fine with his mother, I know that getting back to me or taking my messages just isn't a priority for her - but being able to call my son directly - and even text him - has just been wonderful. I got a good deal for the phone too - it was free - and all his calls are included in my plan - so it didn't even affect my monthly cell phone bill.

I'm concerned that you're doing too much to accommodate your W - and while I understand and respect the need to give her time and space (in fact, I think it's very important) - that effort should never come at the expense of communication between you and your children. Perhaps you could just send her an email letting her know that you would like to talk with the boys at a particular time on certain days of the week - that way, when the phone rings on her end, there is no surprise - and no misunderstood intentions.

I just glanced up and saw the last tag on your signature: "Waiting for W's next move" - maybe that's part of the problem you're having. Not that you shouldn't hold out hope - but perhaps there's more you could be doing for yourself right now? I know you've already done a hell of a lot of work on yourself - what else could you be doing in order to get yourself to the point of being able to love your W enough to let her go if she asks that of you? Not that you should let her go - just that it might help if you find a way to be comfortable enough with yourself that you know you would be okay if things head in that direction...

Do you know what the plans are for the holidays yet?

BTW - healthy 180s...can be a very good thing for you. Besides, a life in action is much more attractive to another person than a life on hold.

-Carlos.

Carlos,

Thanks for the wisdom. You are right. Nothing should ever interfere with communicating with the boys. The scheduled phone calls sound like a simple idea, and makes perfect sense.

Thanks again.

JR

Very similar to what I would suggest. As much as I understand not wanting to appear pursuing, you can't not talk to your kids. So either the messages have to be very "calling to talk to the kids, please have them call me" or schedule times. Or some combination of both.

Withdrawal can happen when the WAS is thinking. Oftentimes it is the result of reality not matching up with their expectations. Sometimes it is because you have surprised them. So, give her a chance to process and think, but don't let it interfere with your time with the kids. Especially if you do end up going down the D filing path again, you can't let it affect your communication with the kids.

Michelle and Carlos,

I echo your concern and agree completely. I called my W and left a voicemail wherein I told her that I'll be checking in with the boys every TUE, THU, and SAT by phone.

Michelle, I really value your insight on my W's withdrawal signs. Right or wrong, your insight give me a sense of peace.

Carlos, the thought of "loving my W enough to let her go" is a tough concept to put my arms around. Yet I understand the necessity to "let go" because it is a real sign of love in itself. More than anything, letting go would really mean that I am OK regardless of the final outcome. It reminds me of a scene in the movie Facing the Giants where the football coach says: "if we win, we praise God, if we lose, we still praise God"

Maybe that's the ultimate state of self-actualization when you accept yourself the way you are, you accept others as well the same way...Anyway, I'm diverging.

Thanks to you both Michelle and Carlos. Thanks for being ever so supportive.

JR

No, you're not diverging. I think you are onto something there.

Like the plan with the boys. I'm interested to see how she responds. Hopefully she realizes that this is a big positive from you on the parenting front. I'm sure you guys can find days you both agree on. Good luck with that!

Michelle,

I'll keep you posted. I'll start calling regularly this week.
More to follow...The message I'd like to send is
"I miss and care for the boys and would like them to know that Dad is still there, albeit through the phone".

JR

I called the boys tonight, part of plan to talk to them more regularly than before. When I called, the phone picked up immediately and the boys were on the other line...I guess my W got my voicemail. It was great hearing the boys'voices. I miss them terribly.

After I was done talking with the boys, I asked my S12 to let me talk to my W briefly. She took the call and I just asked her how she was doing with her health, school. She didn't really say too much other than yes, no, ok. When I asked her how school was going she elaborated a bit, but that was it. Then I ended the conversation and she said she also needed to get the boys ready to go to bed. She said bye, and so did I.
One thing: She didn't bring up the issue of divorce.

I don't know if this was a DB faux-pas, by asking to talk with my W. She sounded guarded and cautious. I just sounded
"as if". Anyway, DB/DR says somewhere to try and see what works, test the waters a bit. I believe that's what I did tonight.

Anyway...so much for that.

JR